Any more Leave supporters on MN?

[SacrebleuLondres]

I've not been on here for a while.

I'm seeing only anti Brexit threads on here.

Any Leave voters out there?

What do we have to look forward to when we Brexit?

The vaguely amusing part is that the people who voted to leave are the ones who will suffer most.

Not true though - the Rees-Moggs and John Redwood's of the world will still have lots and lots of money to buy their way out of the worst difficulties.

Mind you, personally I was very heartened at the May Local Elections, when some very very complacent moneyed Tories got an absolute thrashing in the polls, and lost the Council seats which they thought were theirs by right.

He said he's concerned about the unsustainable debt levels in Italy and feels that if we stayed in we'd have to contribute to any bailout. Also that the Euro could end up collapsing?

(1) The UK is not required to participate in any Euro bail outs.

(2) The Euro is the second largest reserve currency in the world.

In 2016 at the time of the referendum no one was taking about a withdrawal agreement as a deal at all, no one had heard of a withdrawal agreement. When they talked about a deal they were talking about a trade deal. Because we have exactly the same rules and regulations as the EU it was not seen as difficult to get a trade deal with them. Thus leaver said a deal would be easy.
Then the goal posts changed when the EU insisted they wouldn't discuss the trade deal until all the other withdrawal negotiations had been done. TM should never have agreed to this.
Because she agreed we now have this back stop in the WA. If we had been able to negotiate the trade deal at the same time and come up with a free trade deal which was more then possible there would never have been any need for the back stop at all.

TM's government reluctantly agreed the WA as TM was sure it was the best she could get. It has been roundly rejected 3 times by parliament so there is no point in going on and on about who agreed it. It's dead.
We haven't left yet we don't know yet what deal we are going to get so no one can say it's a failed project. It is a shambles mainly to do with TM and her dreadful negotiating or complete lack of it and her complete reliance on Olly Robins. She lost two Brexit ministers because she wouldn't listen to them and was determent to do it all her way.

Oh and I see up thread someone has come out with the usual 'Leavers were lied to' stuff.
I was not lied to, I listened to all the arguments, I questioned the figures on the bus and listened to MG who explained how they got to the £360m.
It was definitely a stupid figure to put on the bus. The actual figure is big enough anyway to make an impact, it really was a daft thing to do.
It should also have been worded better, it was meant to be a suggestion the we could spend it on the NHS.

Doubletrouble99 it’s more accurate to say lies were told and some people believed them. Turkey joining the EU? The UK being forced to join an EU army? Lots of people believed those.

"I can't go into details, obviously, but I know Yellowhammer for what it is. A plan to deal with the ifs and maybes. We will cope."

From Singinglilly

So how many times have we heard that bollocks before? "Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary we will cope."
Which even IF accepted wasn't voted for, or on the side of a bus.

More likely it's bollocks from a bunch of liars and bullshitters (with form for this sort of thing) and cant be believed anymore than any other unaccountable bollocks they've come out with.

We are being 'led' by Truss, Javid, Johnson. Blimey.

Double - did you vote for the collapse of farming, breach of the GFA, closing borders 'overnight', medicine shortages, loss of finance investment, loss of car production, price inflation through tariffs?

Did you? You were lied to.

Anyone watching Blowjob going to Germany from behind a cushion? When I see him on the news these days he reminds me of a right wing old uncle who gets drunk at Christmas. Cannot believe he is in charge of a country.

Soooooo, kids are living in shipping containers, but the government have spare cash to give to councils to prepare for no-deal Brexit. Seems reasonable.

Continuity - Turkey has been in talks with the EU since 2005 to join the EU. In the spring of 2016 the EU was trying to do a deal with Turkey with regard to settling Syrian migrants and giving Turkey special visa's. Obviously politically things have moved on in Turkey which makes it less likely they will join any time soon but at the time the EU stated they expected Turkey to join within the next 10 years. That was 3.5 years ago.
There is an EU army being muted at the moment by other EU members.

Do they sing too loudly?

(Sorry, I'll get my coat)

Doubletrouble99 there is no way Turkey has been anywhere close to meeting the requirements for joining the EU - at any point in time. And as for the EU Army - read the Article 42(2) and take note of the word “unanimous”.

If you voted leave what do you think is the solution to the conundrum that is Northern Ireland?

That should be read TEU Article 42(2)

giving Turkey special visa's

Only for visa free travel for up to 90 days for business, family and tourism reasons, not for work. And not applicable to the UK and Ireland.

All vital bits of information that were “conveniently” missed out from the Leave rhetoric.

Double, I think you are trying to put a gloss on things. It doesn't matter that the figure was a stupid one to put on the bus, that is the one which was used and Johnson was quite happy to stand in front of it. And no, it was worded fine. It didn't say 'We will spend this on the NHS'. It was quite clever in saying "Let's spend it on the NHS." putting the suggestion in people's minds, without questioning whether this was possible or not.

Turkey used to make noises about joining the EU for a lot longer than the last 3 years. 35 more like.

Isn't it a pity that we now have the internet and can quickly find the references to the things they said, and did, and that they can't airbrush them out as quickly as they would like?

As for blaming May, I quite agree that she can't negotiate. But I also recall at the 2016 Tory Conference about the attendees wetting themselves with excitement about what she was saying. Citizens of nowhere? They lapped it up. She could do no wrong until she botched the election.

That's pretty rich saying I have been putting a gloss over things! Especially when you can read ream after ream of complete drivel from remainers telling us how we are all doomed! Turkey first asked to join in 1978 so yes it's been going on for years but what can't be said is that NF was lying when he said Turkey wants to join the EU and that the idea of giving visas as a concession could become the thin edge of the wedge. At that time a lot of EU countries were looking much more favourable towards Turkey. In hindsight of course things have changed. The whole point of the EU army isn't that the UK can veto it and opt out it's the change in the structure and power of the EU and the idea that the federalist's ideas are creeping in more and more.

TM did seem the best person and she certainly talked the talk. Her tough stance and dogged determination were seen as a good thing in that we thought she would be the next Maggie, but no, she capitulated too quickly and had her own ideas or rather Olly Robin's ideas that she insisted on moving forward with which were not what the Brexiteers had wanted at all.

At that time a lot of EU countries were looking much more favourable towards Turkey

Oh yes, the UK had been pushing it for instance. As it happens Turkey had only met 1 of the 35 chapters required for membership by 2016 after 11 years of talks, and even with a more favourable view of Turkey it wasn’t going to happen despite Vote Leave’s posters stating Turkey is joining the EU”.

The whole point of the EU army isn't that the UK can veto it and opt out

No, the whole point is that it will only happen when every EU member country agrees unanimously - as in full co-operation and agreement. That you think it leads to federalism doesn’t make the Leave claims any less of a lie.

And of course the UK had already secured opt outs for ever closer union - conveniently forgotten that this was one of the concessions that Cameron came back with in 2015.

*Turkey wants to join the EU and that the idea of giving visas as a concession could become the thin edge of the wedge"

@Doubletrouble99 - sounds like "project fear" to me. What are you all scared of?

Especially when you can read ream after ream of complete drivel from remainers telling us how we are all doomed!

@doubletrouble99 - but "moany" that....sounds a bit "snowflakey" ..."stop saying we're all doomed, you meanies."

Anyone going to this? Please share widely, even if it makes no difference in the end you'll be able to tell your children in the years to come that you didn't stand by and do nothing.

www.peoples-vote.uk/let_us_be_heard

Copied from the other Brexit thread.

Any leaver want to share their the on Northern Ireland and possible solutions.

Also interested to know if it factored in your decision making when you chose to vote leave.

Garageflower - The point about Turkey is that the last time the EU had a large population join our illustrious Labour government saw fit not to take up the option of limiting the numbers of migrants into the UK.
That could happen again.
I'm not scared of anything. I'm not anti immigration at all but anti FOM and want a system where we can control the types of workers and professions to the ones we are short of.
No matter how many times the government and industry professionals say we are not going to run out of medication and that we have contingency plans we still have people on here going on about how people are going to die and that we Brexiters will have blood on our hands - just ridiculous.

people on here going on about how people are going to die and that we Brexiters will have blood on our hands - just ridiculous.

I would argue that two women already have been murdered because of the referendum and Brexit and the hate it has stirred up.

Doubletrouble - what systems would deal with FOM on the island of Ireland?