All threads in brexit seem to anti brexit? Mn is usually balanced... Were are pro b threads?

[Knittedjimmychoos]

Looking for some lighter brexit relief by fellow leavers... Every thread I've glanced at seems to be dominated by renainers?

Is there any space for leaver on here?

Just interested... I wanted to chat...

[Heratnumber7]

Sealed lorries that can drive through the U.K. to Calais.
Everything else is such small fry in terms of £££ it's immaterial really.

[DGRossetti]

Is it just me, or has a question that wasn't asked just been answered ?

Brexit in a nutshell - no one has a fucking clue what it is.

[Bearbehind]

Sealed lorries that can drive through the U.K. to Calais.

How would that work?

[1tisILeClerc]

{I don't want to be dominated by the power couple that is France and Germany. }

For most of the time it has been a power triple, with the UK being in the midst of things. In the last 10 years or so it has been almost UK policy to sit at the back and play with itself.

The fact that Mr Junker is only the chief spokesperson for the EU and he says what he has been instructed to say by the elected European Parliament, and in turn European heads of government is obviously too subtle for some.

[Iggly]

Leavers don’t have a internally consistent logical argument at all.

It’s primarily based on feelings.

Which is appalling really.

[birdonawire1]

I'm a 'Leaver Lite'. Not a racist, thick or a chauvinist.

My only gripe with the EU is it's rampant waste of money. It's unelected officials making policies ignored by many eu countries but adhered to by us. Being a net contributor with an ever growing admission of countries we are propping up. Having no control on an immigration policy that seems to encourage criminal gangs from Eastern Europe to people traffic, trade drugs etc and to set up shop here because our policing is so inadequate.

I have no gripe with immigration to fill jobs of any description, as many as it takes to encourage a healthy economy. No problem with people settling here who work and pay taxes. No problem with EU laws on work, health and safety of food and goods. Love free movement of people and goods. Love being part of a European community.

David Cameron did not push hard enough for legitimate changes, and the EU were ridiculously intransigent despite concerns from many EU members. A tiny bit of give and take on both sides would have avoided the horrendous mess both sides now find themselves in. The eu will lose a significant net contributor to their funds and the U.K. faces years of financial and social difficulties.

A second referendum is a betrayal of democracy (however ill conceived the first one was). The best people like me can hope for is a super soft Brexit which continues free movement, a tightening up of the law to deport people who are not legitimately here, eu reform to stop stupidities like upping sticks and moving the EU headquarters on a regular basis and a slow slow return to national harmony

[birdonawire1]

And as for the majority of MNers being remainders because that's all that's seen here, I would suggest you look at the fact that in Scotland the independent movement were loud, proud and pushy, with barely a word spoken for staying in the Union on SM or anywhere else. People just kept their heads down and voted to stay. On MN if a Leaver dares put their head above the parapet it's ripped to shreds in minutes.

[Iggly]

We do have control of immigration being an EU member.... leaving the EU will make it harder when it comes to fighting crime.

We benefit economically by being EU member due to having one single trading agreement.

What mess is the EU in by the UK leaving?

[Bearbehind]

The best people like me can hope for is a super soft Brexit which continues free movement, a tightening up of the law to deport people who are not legitimately here

As I said, pretty much all about immigration because this

eu reform to stop stupidities like upping sticks and moving the EU headquarters on a regular basis and a slow slow return to national harmony

Will have nothing to do with us if we leave the EU.

And that aside from the fact dealing with people who are not legitimately here could be done in or out of theEU.

[Bearbehind]

A second referendum is a betrayal of democracy

Except it’s not, it’s the complete opposite. It a chance to confirm the will of the people in light of the reality of the situation.

It is totally undemocratic to try and force something through just because that was the choice 3 years ago.

And the reason Leavers are so against it is they know they’d lose next time because there’s not enough die harders to tip the balance.

[Iggly]

Why is anti democratic to have another vote?

We vote every 4/5 years (more recently) on who runs the country. Because, you know, we like to have to a say regularly......

I’d like a vote on the nature of Brexit. No deal vs a deal vs none of the above

With a decent campaign based on facts. Instead of shady campaigns funded by Russia.

Ask yourself why the likes of Aaron Banks are so invested in leaving the EU......

Where has anyone set out a sensible credible argument as to why Leave is a good idea without harping on about immigration.

[NoBaggyPants]

My mind is blown by the sealed lorries idea. How on earth does that solve the Ireland/ NI border issue? Genuinely intrigued...

[NoBaggyPants]

And wondering if @Heratnumber7 is Chris Grayling in disguise.

[birdonawire1]

Iggly

the eu will be losing a net contributor so the other member states will have to pay in more.

[Peregrina]

Being a net contributor with an ever growing admission of countries we are propping up.

For which you have to thank the Tory party under John Major. I would say that it's understandable he wanted to pull E European countries away from Russia, but with hindsight, it was too soon for most of them.

As for EU immigration - you have Blair who hopelessly underestimated the numbers who wanted to come and not put a stay on the numbers coming as other Member states did. My own guess is that significant numbers of East Europeans would have been just as happy to go to Germany as come here.

[jackparlabane]

@birdonawire1 EU laws have to be passed by the elected Parliament. Yes, the Commission who flesh out the proposals for legislation are unelected - just like civil servants in the UK.

It's known myth that the UK follows all the EU rules while other countries don't - we are at best average in compliance. Let's see if I can insert a chart... ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/statistics.htm

[birdonawire1]

Of course a second referendum is a betrayal of democracy. If we don't agree with a general election result should we vote again? Best of 3?

Any referendum should only be about specific deals... soft Brexit or hard Brexit. No Brexit shouldn't be included because it's a clear attempt to split the leave vote (don't tell the leavers that though, they're far too thick to work that one out!)

[birdonawire1]

Jack... surely ALL eu countries should be complying faithfully with EU regulations. It shouldn't be a 'if I'm in the mood' option.

[pikapikachu]

A general election is every 4 years and it's been 3 years since the referendum.

[JustAnotherPoster00]

but yes we are in a horrible mess and I regret voting Leave and have switched to Remain.

I think the regret should start much earlier than this, if you voted for the Tories who promised the referendum, after all the divisive narratives that the conservatives had been part of since coming into power, Indyref, the striver/scrounger then you are more responsible for brexit than the leave voters are, I mean bellinisurge would rather a no deal (knowing how bad thats going to be because she spends enough time on westminstenders) than a social democtratic government so I see all this on you and dont fall for this faux outrage at how it could have come to this, you voted for it in 2015

[Danetobe]

I was a remainer in 2016 and would vote remain again. However, I don't think all leave voters are stupid/racist/uneducated etc. The only two people who l know voted leave were lovely, caring and well educated. I do however think the made a mistake one the 23rd June 2016 but I'm not going to hold it against them. People make mistakes all the time. One is dead now and one regrets their vote because it hasn't delivered what was promised (350 mil per week for NHS), so i don't have any leave voters to chat with now. I live in a bubble obviously. What would you like to chat about specifically?

The UK was very well respected as a leader in the EU institutions. Embarrassingly so at times; I always thought the EU27 placed a lot of value in the UK as a partner. With hindsight, this was not presented as the power relation at play, I assume because the EU likes to portray all the countries as having equal power as possible. The UK was politically very very stable, which is a valuable asset.

I believe Nigel Farage is unpatriotic for talking the UK down at any given opportunity and not turning up to represent the UK's interest in the EU parliamentary committees, and then complaining why the decision made doesn't work in the UK's interest.

Culturally, the UK is very different. As different as France is to Denmark, Portugal, Austia etc. This is the EUs strength (as Maggie T once said).

[pikapikachu]

The rules for this referendum really should have been defined. Shows the arrogance of Cameron really.

[JustAnotherPoster00]

Of course a second referendum is a betrayal of democracy. If we don't agree with a general election result should we vote again? Best of 3?

If a general election was found to have been run illegally then yes I would expect to vote again, wouldnt the leavers rather it was re-run legally so as you can prove that the original result can stand all the checks and balances required with something that has such devastating consequences on those most unable to weather the storm

[bellinisurge]

Fix the NI border issue and then I will listen to you. Spoiler alert WA did it but apparently that's not Brexit-y enough.

[Iggly]

If we don't agree with a general election result should we vote again?

We wait until our next opportunity- which we get!