Leavers rejoice

[Coppersulphate]

The Brexit Party are doing really well in the polls. I just hope they do as well in the election.
I think their slogan should be "Tell them again".
I would like to see a clean sweep of Brexiteers but I know that is not going to happen.
I have sent off my postal vote.

Coppersulphate
{I don't think for a minute the NF would sign the WA. }

How does this square with the fact that the EU have said that there will be no trade negotiations until the WA is signed.

@1tisILeClerc - How does this square with the fact that the EU have said that there will be no trade negotiations until the WA is signed.

Uhmm... The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU? Pressure from German car manufacturers?

[Foot Stamp] Don't they know who we are?

{[Foot Stamp] Don't they know who we are?}

Yes, those in Europe do know who the UK are, the bunch of idiots off the coast of France, spoiling the nice view of Ireland.

@1tisILeClerc

It does not mention a border.
No.it doesn't because theh didn't have a crystal ball when they draw up the GFA and no one could envisage a.future where the UK would become the most masochistic country ever

There is no logic in those who vote Leave to "take control of our borders" saying there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland.

No hard border means not just goods, but also people, from anywhere in the EU can easily cross into NI and therefore into he rest of UK. How is that controlling our borders?

Also please note that no hard border, which would be required if we left with no deal and tried to trade under WTO rules, would infringe WTO rules and yet a hard border would infringe the Good Friday Agreement.

Either way we would be breaking international treaties and would no longer be trusted and respected anywhere in the world.

How many leave voters ever gave the Irish border a thought before they voted, let alone understood this?

Yaralie,
Where, in the GFA does it mention any border?

I am not suggesting that we have a hard border, I am just tired of people on here telling me we would be breaking the GFA if there was one.

We would not be breaking the GFA. It says nothing about any bloody border. Go and read it.

LeClerc,

We will trade under WTO rules. We don't need the WA for that.

Backintime,
I am not interpreting the GFA. I have reread it (I read it at the time) and there is no mention of any border.
If you think otherwise please find it for me and quote it here.

{We will trade under WTO rules. We don't need the WA for that.}

Which rock have you been hiding under for 3 years?
Basic WTO tariffs will instantly hike the average price of everything by around 10%, kill off UK manufacturing and any new tariff dealing will take 6 - 10 years.
Until the WA is signed the EU, who are 'interested parties' in almost all trade deals the UK would want, HAVE to be included in discussions and they have said they will not start until the WA is signed.
You are currently celebrating the possibility of Farage being a leader who will not sign the WA, therefore all trade negotiations will be grounded.

{I am not interpreting the GFA. I have reread it (I read it at the time) and there is no mention of any border.
If you think otherwise please find it for me and quote it here.}

A lot of eyewateringly expensive international legal teams have looked at the border issue and say there is a problem. I think it fair to say they will be right and not 'Coppersuplhate', a random on the internet.

Fantasy Brexit @Coppersulphate . Thank goodness the grownups are in charge although it's a pity no one is listening to them.

I have never said there is no issue with the border.
I repeat ....it is not mentioned in the GFA.

And I don't for one minute think Nigel Farage will be leader. It is extremely unlikely seeing as he is not standing as leader. He is a candidate in the EU elections like all of the others (although, obviously he is the best candidate)

And we do not need EU approval to trade under WTO rules.
And stop being insulting. Are you this nasty IRL

I dare you to go to the border in NI and say it'll be fiiiiiiiine if the UK leaves on WTO terms. And ask them what they are all making such a silly fuss about.

We will trade under WTO rules
Why trade an organisation we can vote MEPs for one that's run by a Brazilian (Azevedo) along with 600 staff in Geneva who we cannot vote for.
The rules aren't comparable to those we have now and tariffs will increase around 10%.

Every WTO member has a list of tariffs (taxes on imports of goods) and quotas (limits on the number of goods) that they apply to other countries. These are known as their WTO schedules. ... Under WTO rules, after Brexit, cars would be taxed at 10% when they crossed the UK-EU border

How is a No Deal Brexit "taking control of our border" with Ireland. Surely you are suggesting the opposite solution?

If you've got some time this article titled understanding the WTO may be informative OP

www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

{And we do not need EU approval to trade under WTO rules.}

Of course the UK can trade under WTO rules. The WTO rules say that all interested parties for any given commodity must be included in discussions. Since the EU is very much an 'interested party' in practically everything the UK might want to trade, then the EU is automatically at the negotiating table.
They have said they will not enter directly into trade negotiations until the WA is signed and by refusing to appear at WTO negotiations, all discussions will be logjammed thus rendering them illegal.
It is you Coppersulphate who is being insulting by refusing to understand the legality of the situation instead preferring to waffle away with complete bollocks.
Similarly, discounting the very significant problem with the border on Ireland.
If the UK is to leave, then the WA will be signed (eventually if not immediately) and the backstop will be put in place. The EU is perfectly capable of telling the USA, China and Russia to 'do one' if necessary, so don't think they will go 'soft' on the UK especially as the delays requested by the UK have allowed the EU to make sure they really are prepared for a 'no deal' if necessary.
Legally, if it came to it, the EU has many sanctions that could be applied to the UK, effectively crippling all trade either directly or indirectly. The UK press may well mock the elderly team in the EU, but there is a LOT of power and experience behind them if necessary.

Actually we will need EU approval if we Crash Out onto WTO

We would need to negotiate a split of tariff rate quotas and subsidies.

It's not so simple. The UK is already being sued in the WTO because of these issues which we can't resolve without the EU.

So if we Crash Out without paying our debts and cause a border to be created in Ireland, how likely will the EU be willing to help the UK?

Perhaps the Prosecco and auto manufacturers will help us calm things down?

We would not be breaking the GFA. It says nothing about any bloody border. Go and read it

Its not mentioned because no one back in the 90s had any idea the UK would leave the EU... do you not understand anything?

I ve just spent 2 weeks in Spain, met a cross section of europeans, its shocking how they view the UK but more than that, they see the anti eu feeling as a return to the dark days of fascism and you Copper are enabling it.
In all your posts you have never once come out with a solid gain for brexit.... just sound bits

But lets see how the total EU vote %'s add up?

@Coppersulphate - And as I said twice earlier in response to you previous mention of the lack to detail on borders in the GFA:

No, it doesn't. But it does have a lot of detail on cross-community and cross-border co-operation, much of which would be difficult, if not impossible, without an open border.

To suggest that an open border is not necessary for the implementation of the GFA suggests you are either ignorant of the reality of NI and the GFA or a member/supporter of the DUP who would be very happy to see the GFA ripped up.

Additionally, WTO rules require the same rules to be applied to everyone. Therefore the UK needs to either apply the rules they have said will apply to NI to everyone or else apply WTO rules to NI.

While the border is a very visible potential problem with brexit, there are other. more slowly burning potential problems relating to equivalence of rights that will come about if UK changes legislation.

I have never said there is no issue with the border.

But - be honest - you don't really care.

Given a choice between no Brexit, and an England-and-Wales only Brexit, which will you choose? Because, ultimately, that's your choice. Remain, or the end of the union.

Of course it isn't the end of the Union Mistigri, you are being melodramatic.

I do not think we should have a hard border in NI. I have never suggested that we did.
I just get fed up of you all telling us that a hard border would breach the treaty which is GFA. It wouldn't.

There are lots of reasons not to have a hard border but, having one will not break the GFA.

And of course we can trade under our current WTO agreements. Stop spreading worry and panic.
And I have no interest in what some random people in Spain think.

turquoise 'rally' in Merthyr

Yes, we can trade under WTO terms.

But. They. Involve. Tariffs.

And not all countries around the world have agreed to have their previous trade with the UK split out from the EU quotas. Hence it's not that simple.

.....let's not even start on Non-Tariff Barriers, which also cause delays at international borders ( unless you have a FTA or CU).