Leavers rejoice

[Coppersulphate]

The Brexit Party are doing really well in the polls. I just hope they do as well in the election.
I think their slogan should be "Tell them again".
I would like to see a clean sweep of Brexiteers but I know that is not going to happen.
I have sent off my postal vote.

@Coppersulphate - I just get fed up of you all telling us that a hard border would breach the treaty which is GFA. It wouldn't.

I will repeat (again) as you don't appear to be reading my posts.

A hard border would contravene the GFA, not because it states in the agreement that the border should be open, but because a hard border would prevent much of the cross-border co-operation and parity of rights that currently exists as part of the GFA.

For example, the GFA states that one potential area of co-operation is "Health: accident and emergency services and other related cross- border issues". Under the GFA, this was done. Now people who live in border areas may find that their nearest A&E department is across the border. With a hard border, this becomes impractical because of delays or because we go back to the days of the British closing many border crossings (there are approximately 300, with many roads crossing and recrossing the border). The current arrangement where ambulances and fire services freely cross the border, while not specified explicitly in the GFA, are implicitly included in the section on north-south co-operation and implementation.

A hard border would contravene the GFA by preventing the cross-border co-operation that has been implemented under the auspices of the GFA.

Isthisa, I do read your posts.
However, i do not take much notice of them

@Coppersulphate - I do read your posts.
However, i do not take much notice of them

Not surprising.

I have repeatedly stated why a hard border contravenes the GFA but you just keep going on about how it's not explicitly mentioned in the GFA.

You do realise that by ignoring this you are perpetuating the notion that many leavers don't like being presented with facts that show their lack of understanding and that they are incapable of providing any evidence to back up their position?

{And of course we can trade under our current WTO agreements.}

NO YOU CAN NOT.
Leaving the EU means that ALL existing trade deals and tariffs are reset to 'BASE rate' until they get renegotiated which will not happen until AFTER the WA is signed.
What the heck do you thing LEAVING means?
Leaving does not mean things stay the same, it means many things stop. Without the WA being signed and until new negotiations start the UK will be a 'third country' with no trade deals with and more importantly THROUGH the EU.
It is only through EU generosity that they have said that flights and ships will not be suspended from the day the UK leaves, although they would be legally entitled to do so. They have said that in the event of a 'no deal' that a restricted flight schedule and trucks can continue to deliver food for up to 9 or 12 months, after which the UK would be isolated.
The 'happy go lucky' ignorance of what will happen is frightening and minimising it by saying 'it will be fine' is a serious mistake.

"And I have no interest in what some random people in Spain think."

Indicating yet further that you have a lack of understanding of why Spain has a particular interest in how this goes which is more significant than, say, Austria.
But then as you don't give a shit about what the majority in NI feel about this it's hardly surprising that you have no interest in why Spain might be watching this particularly closely. And therefore additional factors that the EU is looking at when it seeks to support its members over a country that is leaving chaotically.

The title of this thread says it all. Leavers don't think they won and have no shame in the fuck up that they have caused by failing to get behind the government and supporting WA. So it is, to quote Bruce Springsteen " Boring stories about Glory Days". That appears to be all they have.

I'll post this link again, specially for Coppersulphate. Read it and tell me why you think trading on WTO terms will be so wonderful...

Here is an interesting one. Maybe Coppersulphate will actually read this one as it's from leavehq.com!

If I may highlight a couple of sections;

"The Leave Alliance has long warned that no responsible government should even consider leaving the EU without a deal, but it would appear that is where we are drifting as a consequence of Tory incoherence."

"Effectively a no deal Brexit is the severing of all of our external trade relations and the deletion of all of our single market permissions. It is as though a system administrator changed your mainframe password. Yes, you might still have a computer, but without being able to log on, all you can do is play Minesweeper."

"A no deal Brexit is akin with performing separation surgery on conjoined twins with a hammer and chisel without anaesthetic, hoping that the weaker one will live." - Note that the UK will be the weaker one...

What is the use of people doing research to try to understand wtf is going on and then trying to share their knowledge gained and folks just bury their heads in the sand and are wilfully obtuse and will not even entertain someone elses pov. I was taught to listen to all sides of a debate do my own fact finding and come to my own conclusions but it seems people do not want to do that and they just shriek you're wrong I'm right without any factual points offered.
There's none so blind as those that won't see

Thank you DorisDaysDadsDogsDead for those links.
Damn the fine print that contradicts the bollocks that so many 'Brexiteers' spout!

I haven't time at present to read links but I'll be back later on and will read then

Something for Leavers to rejoice about. I trust you are not elderly or don't have existing health conditions or you are likely to be out of luck.

Still you could always ask Farage if he'd pay for you Op, he's a wealthy man, after all. I am sure he would be delighted to help you.

.......trying to share their knowledge gained and folks just bury their heads in the sand and are wilfully obtuse and will not even entertain someone elses pov

There was a chap (brexitier) on LBC arguing that the UK needs to build on niche markets post Brexit, as the UK cannot compete on wages.... one suggestion he had was the growing of free range bananas, as his wife liked to buy organic and free range produce, another one he had was to rebuild the leather industry in the Midlands.....er what about the wages matey?

I ve found its impossible to argue with brexitiers, they have very fixed ideas and to frank (though not all) often poorly educated. We are 3 years in and still no brexit gains.... any trade deals Fox may be doing now is just replicating some the numerous FTA's we've with the EU right now.
The EU-Colombia/Peru Trade Agreement was signed on June 2012

Peregrina. There is no posting that poster here. It will not convert anyone away from the Brexit Party. Leavers know what Nigel Farage is like. Most of us quite like him and those that don't are quite happy to use him to deliver Brexit for them. They have no fear of him dismantling the NHS because they know you cannot get into Westminster on an anti-NHS ticket. It's being called Project Smear. It doesn't help your cause.

There is no point posting.

POSITIVES FOR STAYING IN EU

Consumer protections
Environmental protections
Free trade creating jobs
Euratom
Access to largest single market in world
Maternity/paternity rights
Investment in some of the poorest areas often abandoned by our government
Scrapping roaming charges
Scientific/medical research collaboration
Security collaboration
Galileo satellite programme
Erasmus student programme
Students able to study in 30 countries
#ThankEU

1 in 10 doctors in the NHS
The right to live, love, work and retire in 30 other countries
Clean air
Clean beaches
Clamping down on tax avoidance
Workers’ rights
Disability rights
LGBTQ+ rights
70 years of peace
EU citizens contributing to our society and our economy
#ThankEU

Collaboration in fight against cybercrime, trafficking etc
Increased global influence
Peace in Northern Ireland
#ThankEU

and from the comments

Self confidence
Being welcoming to new people and ideas
National pride
Good Friday Agreement protected
No of chemicals banned re product manufacturing 🇪🇺 1200 🇺🇸 5
Biggest free trade bloc in world,
Numerous ta’s and more on the way
The Libson Treaty requires EU policy to promote both citizens rights and the environment.
Human rights
Artistic & academic projects, funding, individuals - everything from ballet to archaeology really.
Not widely known but EU safety legislation on building sites (CDM in the jargon) has saved hundreds of lives and injuries since it was introduced in 1994.

Farage may well not get into Parliament. Getting into the Government has not stopped the Tories quietly privatising the NHS but they would not dream of actually standing on a Scrap the NHS ticket.

www.indy100.com/article/brexit-news-remain-sheila-hancock-video-watch-eu-debate-channel-4-8916271

Sheila Hancock being positive.

Little spaces,
Most of that list the UK is perfectly capable of doing without the EU.

They impose their laws and rules on us and we pay a lot of money to them for the privilege. There are far too many pen pushers on large salaries that we are paying for. They are overly expensive.

The EU gives us "national pride" . Now that really is funny.

They impose their laws and rules on us and we pay a lot of money to them for the privilege.

I think that load of old bollocks has been exposed repeatedly re cost/benefit analysis.
It's usual that laws are 'agreed'. That's how societies work.

At about £30 a year each it is amazing value for money to be part of a large trade bloc and all the other advantages too.

We will have to start from scratch and duplicate stuff which will cost billions and lose us access to trade partners.

Bonkers.

Pride - yes in a connected way, the public discourse, politicians blatantly lying, no responsibility taken at the top, Tommy Robinson, rise in racists attacks, making established Europeans already here re-apply to remain - all of this and lots more make me feel MUCH less proud of this country. The Opening Ceremony of the 2012 Olympics seems so long ago now.

{They impose their laws and rules on us and we pay a lot of money to them for the privilege.}

Or in the real world, UK MEPs debate in Brussels, often proposals that the UK has put forward, and then the whole European Parliament votes (being a bit democratic) and even then countries may have opt outs or exemptions.
Of course many laws are UK specific only and are not impacted by the EU at all.
Coppersulphate obviously has great difficulty with the concept of being 'British' AND European. Maybe (s)he can cope with the concept of being human and British?
Since 'interest' in the EU in the UK was only around 6% before the referendum, there is a hell of a lot of 'noise' about it now, mostly distraction from how bad UK governance has been for the last few decades.

"They impose their laws and rules on us and we pay a lot of money to them for the privilege. There are far too many pen pushers on large salaries that we are paying for. They are overly expensive."

Really?

Well apart from that being a rather childish argument, you could say the same about Westminster. I could probably say it about my local council which only cares about part of the borough and has screwed us over on a local issue.

Perhaps we should go back to a fully agrarian society. Let's call it Year Zero, shall we?😂😂😂