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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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1tisILeClerc · 09/05/2019 12:20

Or in other words, if the WA will not be signed by a UK Prime Minister, then the only other option is to revoke, it is not in the power of the UK to change this.

ElenadeClermont · 09/05/2019 12:23

But what about the Brexit party MEPs who are demanding to be on the team negotiating no-deal?!
(Just sarcastic and sad here.)

woman19 · 09/05/2019 12:34

Corbyn quotes Blair, shock:

But here is what he said almost at the end of the press conference about how a second referendum could be a healing process

The view we put forward, the party conference put this forward, the national executive agreed this, [was] that we should include the option of having a ballot on a public vote on the outcome of the talks and negotiations on what we’re putting forward. I would want that to be seen as a healing process, and bringing this whole process to a conclusion

Nothing is easy in this. But our essential message has to be to bring people together and that’s the basis on which we’ve approached both what we’ve done in parliament and in the negotiations itself

This may have been the most intriguing thing Corbyn said all morning

'Healing.' Something is definitely sick and injured in the english body politic.

TheElementsSong · 09/05/2019 12:40

Has anyone posted this? Scary stuff.
thechesterblog.com/2019/05/08/the-brexit-party-incident/

Goodness Littlespaces that sounds so unpleasant and ugly. Wonder how, together with everything else about the Brexit Party, anybody could proudly say they're going to vote for them while insisting that it's all kittens and sunshine.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/05/2019 12:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/05/2019 12:48

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

CrunchyCarrot · 09/05/2019 12:50

'healing process'.. just another one of those glib phrases.

Motheroffourdragons · 09/05/2019 12:52

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

1tisILeClerc · 09/05/2019 12:56

{Has anyone posted this? Scary stuff.
thechesterblog.com/2019/05/08/the-brexit-party-incident/}

As a general question. In an incident like that, who takes precedent, the 'security' or the UK police force?
So if you were being 'assaulted' by private security, can you summon assistance from the police?

woman19 · 09/05/2019 12:57

For me - it seems like the labour party actually don't want to win elections
Certainly looks like it mother Sad

@stephenkb
A position of "Brexit, a general election, and if we can't get those a second vote" is not ambiguous. It is a pro-Brexit policy. Just cos some of the people backing it are crossing their fingers doesn't change that:

CardinalSin · 09/05/2019 12:57

Gordon Bennett, but Ann Widdecombe is an idiot!

2016 - Brexit will give us sunlit uplands and unicorns and everlasting cake

2019 - Brexit won't be as bad as that time when 450 000 of us were killed...

Notstrongandstable · 09/05/2019 13:02

* RTB:* have to question who is behind them and what their interest is? Do they have a certain political bias themselves

Exactly this. I was thinking of signing up for the remain voter but stopped short as how do we really know who's behind it?
I'll be voting for the party I favour most, as always. If they don't win then at least my vote has gone where my heart believes. I also do this in GE despite FPTP system. What's the point in voting, if it's not for somebody you believe in, even if they might not win? You may as well not bother

prettybird · 09/05/2019 13:06

European elections 2019: Labour can unite our country, says Corbyn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48208846

"So if we can't get a sensible deal, along the lines of our alternative plan, or a general election, Labour backs the option of a public vote."

So that's a No to a PV then, as those "if" conditions have already been met Confused and he still isn't coming down unambiguously in favour of a PV Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 09/05/2019 13:10

Corbyn COULD have an alternative plan, but the WA has to be signed first, then if he is 'PM' the EU will listen to it and negotiations can START.

It really is quite simple.

DGRossetti · 09/05/2019 13:25

For me - it seems like the labour party actually don't want to win elections

Does anyone recall "The New Statesman" episode where Alan B'stard MP (nod to the much missed Rik ...) tricks the Tories into desperately wanting to lose the next election on the basis of a dodgy dossier saying "the oils run out" (The premise being that an incoming Labour government would get the blame).

I've often thought of that episode when the Tory leadership is mentioned. Because for all their public whinging, no one wants to be the next Tory leader. The one after that, yes. Hence the invented-for-the-media "caretaker" leader position.

NoWordForFluffy · 09/05/2019 13:42

It really is quite simple.

Well, to everyone but those who are actually meant to be implementing the bloody thing.

Peregrina · 09/05/2019 13:53

If Labour really can unite the country, would we not have seen some reflection of that in last week's elections? With Labour pulling in votes in both strong Leave and Remain areas. We didn't see it.

QueenOfThorns · 09/05/2019 14:02

If people aren’t going to get behind any of the organisations trying to avoid splitting the remain vote, we are screwed. Why wouldn’t you?

My only hope now is that Labour do a u-turn and come out for a PV Sad

Peregrina · 09/05/2019 14:08

Can anyone see Labour doing a U turn?

icannotremember · 09/05/2019 14:11

If Keir mounts a coup, maybe.

LouiseCollins28 · 09/05/2019 14:30

I usually approach content on "UK in a Changing Europe" with scepticism, but whether you are Remain or Leave inclined, they do have some very good articles on there.

I know the MN Brexit board is usually "Remain" central, but if you are minded to attempt to understand the mindset of those who'd prefer to Leave, this is a very good exploration of the current mindset of some Leave voters IMHO.

ukandeu.ac.uk/long-read-brexit-delayed-the-self-paved-road-back-to-serfdom/

PowerBadgersUnite · 09/05/2019 14:38

If people aren’t going to get behind any of the organisations trying to avoid splitting the remain vote, we are screwed. Why wouldn’t you?

Isn't the fact that there are multiple organisations trying to avoid splitting the vote a bit of a problem though? The "don't split the remain vote" campaign is itself split.

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/05/2019 14:40

Parliament’s proper role after the referendum result was to accept the electorate’s instruction, debate and define what Brexit should involve (the appropriate function of representative democracy, not a binary referendum), and then oversee its implementation.

Why does Parliament have to debate and define what Brexit should involve? I thought all Leavers knew exactly what they voted for?

CardinalSin · 09/05/2019 14:42

LouiseCollins' link is so full of holes and contradictions it doesn't change my opinion of Quitlings one iota.

LonelyTiredandLow · 09/05/2019 14:46

Cardinal - I have to admit I only read as far as that para, having already let at least 3 points go... it's an eye-roll emoji from me.