Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

[RedToothBrush]

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

For a proxy vote you need to register at least 6 working days beforehand in England, Wales and Scotland. So I reckon that would be by 14th May.

Emergency proxies are for people suddenly taken ill, or called away for work.

I wouldn’t object to Farage being all over the media if only he were properly held to account on everything he says and asked searching questions about his activities and links to potential criminality.

She is going to post it today so hopefully it will be in time.

Helpfully, here is a link or the proxy voting forms:
www.gov.uk/government/collections/proxy-voting-application-forms

^Your application form must arrive at your electoral registration office by 5pm, 11 working days before the poll when changing or cancelling
an existing proxy, postal or postal proxy vote and by 5pm, 6 working days before the poll when applying for a new proxy vote.^

She had a proxy for the local elections, so does this one count as a new one? In which case 6 days is fine. Or not? In which case she may have missed it.

woman There are international laws on what is permitted within war and what are war crimes or crimes against humanity
e.g. not allowed to rape, torture, mistrea prisoners, not allowed to deliberately murder unarmed civilians, not allowed to use WMD

In NI and Iraq - and in other conflicts - British armed forces repeatedly broke at least the international laws against mistreating prisoners and deliberate murder of civilians

"controlling mind" ?

Same criterion as for any civilian committing a defence - and we prosecute 100s of 1000s of civilians every year .
Why let off soldiers ?
They may be unfit to be tried or have extenuating mental conditions - in which case the war crime would be that they were ever recruited and sent to war

Under international law, soldiers are required to refuse orders to commit war crimes
Some of the soldiers being prosecuted or investigated were obeying orders -especially in NI ; some weren't
Doesn't affect their guilt under imternational law

It is infuriating that successive govts delayed prosecution until all the responsible officers & civil servants had died off,
but that is no reason to let off the ordinary soldiers,

• rank & file concentration camp guards were prosecuted decades later, long after all senior officers who organised it all were dead.

Many on the right admire the US, who refuse to cooperate with the ICC into war crimes their armed forces committed
who refuse to allow investigators into the US
and who even threaten to extradite and imprison ICC judges if they try US soldiers

We excused soldiers who committed war crimes against rebelling colonies, then against NI rebels, then in Wars for Oil
Next step war crimes to keep down the rebellious population after a No Deal Brexit ?

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
So.... McVey, Leadsom, Stewart have publicly put hat in ring. And then we have Johnson, Javid, Hancock, Hunt, Raab and perhaps Gove, Harper, Cleverly, Mordaunt, Mercer, Lewis. Who have I missed?

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Steve Baker, ERG organiser and deputy chair, who says he’s ‘seriously considering it’ because some of his colleagues are urging him to think about it - this may be a very very long list -

Sam Coates Times@samcoatestimes
The number of people running suggests many no-hopers doing so simply to get in the cabinet or better jobs in the cabinet.

Leadership contests are therefore becoming indicative votes for cabinet positions

Argh, I'm very conflicted today. I was planning to vote Green or LD in the euro elections but have just found out that Andrew Graystone (the man who stood outside one of our local mosques on the day of the Christchurch massacre with the sign saying "You are my friends. I will keep watch while you pray") is standing for CUK with the express intention of keeping Yaxley Lennon out. That is something I want to cast my vote for...

controlling mind" ? confused
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_manslaughter_in_English_law

Not criminal law, so I'll definitely be barking up the wrong legal tree, )as usual ) but 'controlling mind' (from Herald of Free Enterprise disaster) is a reference to who made ultimate decision for them to shoot?

The people of Dresden would have a case against Bomber Harris?

Under international law, soldiers are required to refuse orders to commit war crimes

I didn't know that, thanks BCF

Are squaddies taught this?

I think Molly Scott Cato will still get a seat in the South West as she is well known & respected.

Molly Scott Cato was excellent on the Today programme this morning making the same point about the dangers of splitting the remain vote.

It was part of a piece on the SW region in the elections and the interviewer also spoke to Rachel Johnson out & about campaigning, and after pointing out that she used to be a LD asked her to name a LD policy she no longer agrees with. There was then a long silence & Rachel Johnson claimed she was 'admiring the view'!

Anne Widdecombe was absolutely appalling, going on about the fucking war & how no deal brexit would be 'bumpy' but was less of a sacrifice than we asked of our grandparents in the service of freedom. I truly don't understand this mindset or how anyone thinks these comparisons are anything other than ludicrous. Is Widdecombe so bored with panto & reality TV that she needs to pretend we're involved in a war with Europe? And surely people remember her from her days as a Tory minister, & how dreadful she was then?

It is legally interesting though, BCF as it foregrounds a conflict between domestic and international law, (and re foments conflict into the mix) which is what makes me wonder why it is being prosecuted right now. So many other 'unlawful killing' cases could be brought. Why this one. Now?

how dreadful she was then
being chained through childbirth

With Farage and some others, they make money from market instability, so whatever they say/do is intended to rock the boat as much as possible rather than actually achieving anything for the general populace. So the announcements by the PM, almost whatever they are, can be 'manipulated' into a financial win for those 'betting' on the markets. Appearing to get loads of support from those that are not thinking of a long term goal just helps destabilise the market.

So TM is apparently planning on bringing her bloody awful WA back again to parliament before the EU elections...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7009529/Defiant-bring-Brexit-vote-European-elections-two-weeks.html

The woman is either a complete masochist or totally insane.

Arrrghhh!!!

Has anyone posted this? Scary stuff.

thechesterblog.com/2019/05/08/the-brexit-party-incident/

With Farage and some others, they make money from market instability, so whatever they say/do is intended to rock the boat as much as possible rather than actually achieving anything for the general populace

Ultimately, a lot of "Brexiteers" don't really give two shits whether the UK is in out of the EU, as long as it can take as long as possible over the process with very little indication of direction (thanks to the NDA-fest). In fact for some, a UK hopping in and out of the EU is the best possible outcome. Which is one reason why no-deal is a weapon that can be used to gerrymander a remain/revoke action.

Icannotremember where is he on the Change list? He's not number 1. Realistically I can't see more than one seat being up for grabs for LDs, greens and Change in the NW. If something odd happens, there may be two seats I guess.

I personally think all these tactical voting sites I've seen are DEEPLY flawed when I've looked at the numbers.

I have to question who is behind them and what their interest is? Do they have a certain political bias themselves

I will NOT be using them for that reason because I don't think they are particularly useful nor will work.

Starting to watch Behind Closed Doors and it is striking that they are releasing this because NEGOTIATIONS ARE OVER. They wouldn't do that if they thought they would be renegotiating anything with Farage. Wondering if it is time for an outside body separate from EU/UK to make it clear we owe the payment and will be breaking international law. UN?

Ellie56 I KNEW IT! She'll be desperate to avoid the EU elections.
Should we be worried or has she got no chance as per usual? Will Bercow allow it for a FOURTH time? Or is it fifth? When is this madness due to take place?

7th I think Red. So not worth it then.

I'm going to look at all the websites and polls and so on but tbh I think the remain vote is going to be too split here.

The thought of Yaxley Lennon getting elected makes me sick.

I don't think she can avoid the EU elections, but will want to prevent MEPs taking their seats. Now if Farage's rabble sweeps the board then that won't be quite so bad as if representives of all other parties won seats.

Watched Corbyn's speech at the launch of the Labour Party's European Manifesto (or more accurately, started watching and then just realised it was washing over me as a blah, blah, blah string of meaningless sound bites which didn't make any sound ).

In as much as any of what he didn't say stated, Labour seem to be claiming that the election is nothing to do with Leave or Remain and that the Labour Party is still committed to another GE (there will after all be one in 2022 ) and failing that, in line with Labour Party policy that he was forced in to, kicking and screaming a PV at some undefined point in the future.

He may of course have been more specific and I didn't notice because all his droning had merged into a meaningless and irritating buzz

{ Ellie56 Thu 09-May-19 11:24:07

So TM is apparently planning on bringing her bloody awful WA back again to parliament before the EU elections...}

What the UK apart from Theresa and a few on here are willfully failing to get into their heads is that the WA is NOT a deal, and more importantly WILL be signed before the EU commence any meaningful negotiations. That is a precondition set down by the EU.
Citizens rights must remain (as laid out in the WA), the exit 'bill' will probably need a bit of renegotiating but ultimately that is 'just' money, so whether it is £39 Billion or £41 Billion or whatever it might end up as is not overly important. The Backstop for the border also stays.

The WA is sitting on a table in Brussels waiting for the UK Prime Ministers signature and it will be signed, either this week or 20 years time (if the UK plans to leave).