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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

OP posts:
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TheMShip · 09/05/2019 06:16

Johnny Mercer has resigned the Tory whip ostensibly over the Bloody Sunday prosecution. Bet something (more) unflattering about that £85k job is about to come out.

Songsofexperience · 09/05/2019 06:55

After the onset of the Great Depression, the party saw its vote totals jump dramatically in 1930, then rocket to 38 percent in July 1932

I don't think the context is comparable. The anger here and in the West in general emerges after decades of peace and prosperity. Who is getting angry and why? Who is stirring this particular pot? Reactionary white males, not necessarily the struggling working class, not necessarily the poor who have been shafted. They might be angry but i dont buy that they're all backing NF and his trumpian dream.

Songsofexperience · 09/05/2019 06:56

I actually dread to think what will win support once the climate crisis really hits.

Peregrina · 09/05/2019 07:13

Everything points to a major advantage to the Brexit Party in terms of campaigning and ability to campaign.

Adding to that the constant free publicity from the MSM. We alluded to that the other day: it makes National news when 1500 Brexit supporters fill a hall. You don't hear a squeak about other parties or action groups filling halls with standing room only.

HesterThrale · 09/05/2019 07:17

Mercer says he'll vote with the Government on Brexit but nothing else. Pointless defection? There's not much else going on anyway, apart from Brexit.

Laura K:
Blimey - Johnny Mercer withdraws support from govt over its treatment of veterans - says he will vote with Tories on Brexit but nothing else - his letter here.

twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1126233573445574660

woman19 · 09/05/2019 07:29

constant free publicity from the MSM
Who needs Fox, when you have British papers and TV.

The faragit has been on Peston now, several times too.

Coverage of Women's News in msm is becoming more and more grotesque. See feminist chat for what's happened to Domestic Violence reporting. (it's not being reported)

Guardian has 2 stories by men today on how to give birth and why porn is a 'good thing'. Angry

Cherry, Wollaston, Soubry and Phillips are the high profile politicians they are trying to silence. (and Helen Lewis New Statesman)

Mercer.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-47884273
Things being arranged for next tory coronation.

Still.
Got 2 Lib Dem leaflets, addressed to the youth in our house. Smile
Wind is clearly in their sails.
It's a grass roots movement, which could go our way. Smile

Peregrina · 09/05/2019 07:35

Mercer's letter sounds principled, but, have any soldiers been prosecuted at all, rather than as he implies being retried on old evidence? However, they didn't post themselves to NI, so whoever higher in authority did needs also to be held to account.

I think then of two other circumstances:

We are still prosecuting elderly Nazis for war crimes, although this is now coming to an end by virtue of the fact that they have mostly died now.

Finally, some prosecutions are being held for the Hillsborough disaster, which sounded initially like totally incompetent crowd control. This was then followed by two decades of prejudice against the fans and hostility whipped up by the media.

If Brexit does happen, unless we get the full on dictatorship which appears to be what some of the right-wingers want, then eventually there will be an enquiry as to how it happened. When people like May are likely to be dead.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2019 07:36

When Mercer first became an MP after leaving the army, I thought his aim of getting better treatment for veterans was a decent idea.

I hadn't realised he meant amnesty for war criminals

He is a disgrace Angry

Ellie56 · 09/05/2019 07:38

Lib dem leaflet addressed to me arrived last week.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/05/2019 07:43

Just because British authorities in NI, Iraq etc covered up war crimes at the time and didn't prosecute soldiers who committed them - usually to protect senior officer - does not justify amnesty in later years.

Neither does the fact that the senior officers are dead - so were most senior Nazis for the many decades that their juniors were prosecuted

and "I was just obeying orders" has been rejected as a defence ever since the Nuremburg trials

woman19 · 09/05/2019 07:46

Did those soldiers who are potentially being tried disobey orders? This potential prosecution sounds legally and ethically peculiary. Who was the 'controlling mind' necessary for conviction? Politically useful to the extreme right, though Hmm

Unless we are going to ban war (hooray Smile) it will always involve criminality in terms of domestic criminal law.

Matrix Churchill btw anyone?

Trouble at t' mill
@JolyonMaugham
I wonder how much cancelled memberships due to Labour's pro-Brexit stance are restricting its ability to pay staff?

@Gabriel_Pogrund
NEW: Labour staff vote to reject the latest "final offer" pay deal proposed by Jennie Formby. Landslide result. Renegotiation and industrial action among possible next steps.

HesterThrale · 09/05/2019 07:51

It beggars belief that faragit is on QT again tonight. Timed just right for his latest ‘party political’.

Another letter to the Beeb required... what are the stats again on the number of his appearances?

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/who-is-on-the-bbc-question-time-panel-in-northampton-tonight-may-8-2019-1-6039855

WorriedMutha · 09/05/2019 07:56

Gina Miller is launching a tactical voting site today. This is a Guardian story but she's also tweeted it. We have to organise to avoid splitting the remain vote.

Frankiestein402 · 09/05/2019 07:58

Received euro 'election communication from the Conservative party' earlier this week, addressed to me, partner didn't get one. (Hertfordshire) main thrust is a claim that 89% of Conservative MPs have backed the brexit deal compared to 2% of Labour MPs

lonelyplanetmum · 09/05/2019 08:24

It beggars belief that faragit is on QT again tonight.

FGS.He must boost viewing figures or something. Viewers must boycott tv when he is on.

Although as his leaflet admits Brexit is now not about the EU ..perhaps he'll actually reveal more of his ideas to help his mate Trump. Switching our food supplies and healthcare provision for a start.

Why does Faragit have charm for anyone? I've bored people before but my FiL is a caricature of a bitter old Brexiteer. Over the bank holiday He ranted vociferously at the TV when any politician was on including Vince Cable.

Then when the leader of the Faragit party came on FiL fell respectfully silent and attentive. Then went back to ranting about how there's 'not an English name in our football team'.

So glad I didn't participate in this visit.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2019 08:44

Dd is the only one to have received any European election bumpf. Both from the Lib Dems, one at our address and one at her university address.

Peregrina · 09/05/2019 08:51

I have made a complaint about Farage and Question Time, although it ought to be retitled Brexit Time.

lonelyplanetmum · 09/05/2019 09:03

Faragit time!

Do we think his leaflet says Brexit is no longer just about the EU because.. ..Faragit wouldn't Brexit either? He has started the distancing process from the pre 2016 rhetoric. He must have realised by now that neighbours have traded with neighbours since time immemorial. I reckon he tacitly acknowledges that our previous membership deal was actually far superior to anything any current numpty could negotiate?

Motheroffourdragons · 09/05/2019 09:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

phpolly · 09/05/2019 09:11

.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 09/05/2019 09:13

If our grey cat was a human, he would have been deported. When we moved into our house 3 years ago, he basically adopted us.
We didn’t feed him, he just kind of moved in.
When his owner moved, she said that we may as well keep him. He doesn’t have a job but has not claimed any benefits.
I am waiting for a letter to assess him for capability for work.
He is the soppiest thing you could ever meet. He was massively attached to DS1 who moved out in September to go to university and spent literally weeks wandering round the house miaowing and looking for him.

PCPlumsTruncheon · 09/05/2019 09:14

I actually think he would make a better PM than this current crock of shit

Littlespaces · 09/05/2019 09:14

Is it too late to register for a proxy vote?

Someone I know has to be away from home on election day.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2019 09:20

It's not too late for a proxy vote I'm sure. In emergencies you can even register on the day.

Littlespaces · 09/05/2019 09:21

I want to give helpful advice as it is a Remain vote.

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