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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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TheABC · 08/05/2019 15:49

I am mildly amused at the way the spin has changed from "no second referendum - Brexit means Brexit!" to "we may need a referendum to break the deadlock".

Can it actually be done in the time left to us?

Peregrina · 08/05/2019 15:51

I think we might have to ask for another extension!

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 08/05/2019 15:52

I has my last political YouGov survey last September Hmm . It had some freeform spaces for answers and I may have been a bit vehement Grin

Now I get ones about TV and brands. But since I don’t want TV or talk about brands I rarely get more than a few questions per survey. Is talking about brands actually something people do?

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 08/05/2019 15:53

Watch. Not want.

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 15:55

I am mildly amused at the way the spin has changed from "no second referendum - Brexit means Brexit!" to "we may need a referendum to break the deadlock". Can it actually be done in the time left to us?

If the UK were to come to a decision about a second referendum, it would take at least 6 months to implement (I'd say 9, since it would involved the mother of all bunfights over the options. In fact we might end up having a referendum on the referendum questions).

If we take it for granted (dangerous, but bear with me) that the EU would extend the extension from 31st October to (say) March 2020 to allow for the referendum, that's almost a year in which no one has to commit to anything. Which must seem incredibly appealing to all sides ... mainly because it would be impossible to actually "do" anything with a referendum looming.

At least there would be a chance of binding oversight on media and campaigning in the lead up.

Littlespaces · 08/05/2019 15:56

I was sad to hear on the radio that we are now less well regarded around Europe. It is disheartening.

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 15:57

Now I get ones about TV and brands. But since I don’t want TV or talk about brands I rarely get more than a few questions per survey. Is talking about brands actually something people do?

It's what YouGov can sell to the brands - especially ones who like to know how well/badly the competition is doing.

Wait until AI engines learn to complete surveys ... or have they already Hmm ?

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 15:58

I was sad to hear on the radio that we are now less well regarded around Europe. It is disheartening.

Or about time too ?

tobee · 08/05/2019 16:09

Ooh I love a survey. Egocentric? Moi?

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 16:12

I suspect the universe listens to MN. Or at the very least my posts on MN Grin.

Just heard a bump from the front of the house. Had a quick look, and a box we left out with paper recycling in it had it's lid off. My immediate thought was the wind (it's a shit day here in Brum) but then I saw a black and white cat face behind the box looking (if cats have expressions) rather cheesed off at the contents.

You can add this cat to the ones that prowl here - I've never seen it before. You can also add it to the "psycho" cats, as it spent a good couple of minutes giving me a "and ?" look ....

LoonvanBoon · 08/05/2019 16:35

Re the brexit party leaflets, who are they being addressed to?

One came addressed to DH today but nothing for me, so I wondered if men were more likely to be targeted.

I also thought it was weird not to include any of our actual candidates. I don't think the Yorks & Humber ones are v interesting though am only basing that on the fact that although I have looked them up I can't remember any of their names. Some brexity middle aged businessman and a female singer are no 1 and 2 IIRC.

I really hope we're going to get some literature from other parties!

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 16:39

Re the brexit party leaflets, who are they being addressed to?

And where are they getting the addresses ?

TheElementsSong · 08/05/2019 16:53

Should I feel left out that we haven't had a Brexit party leaflet yet? Could be because we're in one of the most pro-European constituencies (so I've heard it said) in the North?

DarlingNikita · 08/05/2019 16:54

On the Brexit Party leaflet demographics:

We just got some for our building (three flats). There was one for my female neighbour and one for my male neighbour; one for my female lodger but nothing for me (female) or my male DP. So no, not just men. Don't know about the addresses; I'm not sure there's much difference between any of us in terms of likelihood of putting our addresses on things/signing up to things online etc.

I feel oddly affronted not to have got one Grin

We are in probably one of the UK's least Brexity areas, by the way. And one of us is from another EU country and has a furrin surname. So they must have either no clue about targeting; a secret tactic for recruiting that I can't work out; or money to burn in scattergun advertising campaigns. Who IS funding them, anyway...?

Iambuffy · 08/05/2019 16:56

None here yet....

prettybird · 08/05/2019 17:07

I think as a registered political party (I didn't say a credible one Wink) the Faragit Party has a right to the full electoral register Hmm, from which they can do one (or two?) mailings per campaign.

woman19 · 08/05/2019 17:10

Coffee and Belgian buns outside HOC on Friday. 10.30-12; all welcome. Smile A distinguished visitor expected (not Archie). Wink

woman19 · 08/05/2019 18:11

C of E abuse survivors dismayed as 'seal of confessional' upheld

Campaigners say the church continues to hide abusers under a ‘cloak of secrecy

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/08/c-of-e-abuse-survivors-dismayed-as-seal-of-confessional-upheld

There are more questions than answers, sometimes, about the C of E.

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 18:57

C of E abuse survivors dismayed as 'seal of confessional' upheld

And yet medical privilege isn't (and RIPA put paid to solicitor-client confidentiality anyway ...)

Hmmm

frumpety · 08/05/2019 19:09

Our Brexit party one was addressed to DH. The LD was actually for next door, so have duly popped it through their letterbox.

Something I did notice when checking the candidates for the Brexit party in my area, is that there are 6 leave parties if you include the Conservatives and Labour, that's if the Yorkshire party are leavers ?

dreichuplands · 08/05/2019 19:12

They won a couple of seats in our Local so I checked them out. They are leavers but pretty mild ones. They were set up by a leaver and a remainer and wish to respect the vote to leave etc.

LoonvanBoon · 08/05/2019 19:21

The Yorkshire party seems to be under new management. They were originally founded by Diana Wallis, who was a Lib Dem MEP for Yorks & Humber until 2012 (stepped down mid term) & v pro European as well as pro Yorkshire devolution.

Diana Wallis doesn't appear to be connected with them in any way any more, & to confuse matters is now no 1 on Change UK's (or whatever they're called today) candidate list for Yorks & Humber. And the new incarnation of the Yorkshire party is, as dreich says, seemingly mildly pro brexit, though they say they oppose Theresa May's deal & that it will be 'bad for Yorkshire'. As will any form of brexit.

Songsofexperience · 08/05/2019 19:40

Oddly enough, both my mother and I received a Brexit party leaflet. We live in the same area. I wonder why they seem to target women around here. Very Remain area.

LonelyTiredandLow · 08/05/2019 19:43

Re the BP - most of the supporters I've noticed (anecdotally on my fb) seem to be the ones who share all of the anti-paedophile memes a couple of years ago. They also include many who post about polar bears dying out thanks to Planet Earth series.

I may have been trolling a little about how the BP has Fox and Tax Payers Alliance's views on the environment... Obviously I don't want them voting blindly on one issue.

bellinisurge · 08/05/2019 19:45

This is a massive Leave area. No Brexit Party leaflets here yet. Actually none of any party. Mind you, I reckon UKIP/EDL will take a few votes off the Brexit Party here AngryConfused

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