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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

OP posts:
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1tisILeClerc · 08/05/2019 10:54

That German cartoon of 'The English patient' ought to be animated and broadcast on a loop.

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 10:57

Labour MEP now keeps saying people should vote Labour so as not to 'split their vote'

Nope, not gonna happen.

Next !

(And have emailed my Labour MP to say why, just in case they get "confused" about why people didn't back them ...)

BollocksToBrexit · 08/05/2019 11:28

Our voting papers arrived yesterday. We got 2 lots, one for the UK and one for Sweden. We have to choose which one to use but can't decide. Do I vote in the UK for an anti brexit party knowing that the winner may never even take up their seat? Or do I vote here for someone who will be representing us for the next few years?

TheMShip · 08/05/2019 11:44

Rafael Behr in the Guardian talking some sense. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/08/jeremy-corbyn-revolution-brexit-socialism

Right in the 1st para, spelled out black and white:

The prime minister and the Labour leader both claim to want to take the UK out of the EU, and there is a document describing in great detail how it would be done. It is not a secret text. You can download it from the government website. It is the withdrawal agreement that May negotiated last year. No other legal method for enacting Brexit exists, nor is any alternative blueprint going to be drafted.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 11:49

The Bearded Broz sound ace ! 😍

The decent people in all major religions seem to have very similar principles of kindness and charity

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 11:58

The decent people in all major religions seem to have very similar principles of kindness and charity

Yes. But that's because they are decent people to start with. Very little to do with the religion. If you need a sky fairy to tell you to be nice to others, then you, my friend, are a knob.

As an atheist I'm not particularly religious Grin. But that doesn't mean you can't learn from them.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 12:01

Yep, Mship The EU have been saying this since it was negotiated last September
Yet some Brexiters still insist the Uk must renegotiate

The PD can be changed and if a new version were put in an international treaty, say with a lock that 3 of the 4 nations must approve any changes, then this could legally prevent any future ERG PM going for a harder Brexit

1tisILeClerc · 08/05/2019 12:01

TheMShip
Yes, that first paragraph should be copied and pasted to all newspapers, and all other forms of news media and run every day until, whenever really, so that it's truth might eventually sink into the heads of many in the UK.
Denying it and having a 'wobble' won't stop it being less true.

prettybird · 08/05/2019 12:04

I think that the Government (and Labour) has learnt the what they perceive as disadvantages of putting things into International TreatiesHmm that they can't just then renege on Shock - so therefore not going to happen. Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 12:05

DG Yeah and if you are a miserly judgemental shit, who despises the poor, then religion won't change that

  • there are always justifications, whether religious, political or other, that vile people can make for being vile

Religion may be a magnifier or reinforcer of the different mindset that different people have

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 12:11

Yeah and if you are a miserly judgemental shit, who despises the poor, then religion won't change that

Jesus could be walking amongst us as we speak - either returned or for the first time (trying to be inclusive Grin) - and no one would know, for they'd be amongst the poorest, weakest and most vulnerable of society. Where not many go.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 12:15

Of course, a govt could break any international treaty a predecessor signs,
but then that would make the UK almost a pariah state that no other country would trust

The USA, China, maybe Russia, have the power to get away with arbitrarily breaking treaties & international law,
but the UK doesn't even when it's an EU member, let alone post-Brexit with the economy over the cliff and hardly any trade deals carried over

woman19 · 08/05/2019 12:15

Jesus could be walking amongst us as we speak
He'd be getting his costume ready for the Eurovision Song Contest in his home town. Big gay scene there. Smile He swung both ways, no?

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 12:17

Meanwhile, the US gets to tell the UK off ...

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/08/mike_pompeo_uk_visit_huawei_fears/

America’s foreign secretary is to deliver a telling-off to the UK over the British government’s decision to maintain the Huawei status quo for 5G networks, according to reports.

Mike Pompeo, who is the US Secretary of State, will meet Brit prime minister Theresa May and make a speech mentioning Huawei, reported the BBC.

(contd)

of course the real story that no one is reporting on, is how come the allegedly most advance nation on earth (the US) has managed to end up in a position where it is completely unable to own it's own technological future. Could it be decades of shaving the value out of education in pursuit of bonuses and backhanders has choked the life out of their own tech sector and left them embarrassingly dependent on the Chinese. Who - for all their many and deeply unfunny faults - do know how to invest in education and their workforce ? Maybe (whispers) not all "communism" is so bad ?

One day. And it may not be that far away. One day, China will start trading in a currency other than dollars. Which will be a bad day for those that do.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 12:20

Religion also doesn't stop dodgy people doing the dodgy

In case you were wondering why Nissan until late 2018 sounded so confident of its future in the Uk
It took them that long to realise that people who promise to bend / break the rules for them are usually liars too

James Chapman@jameschappers (former DexEU chief of staff)

Might as well reveal it now I have nothing to do with‪ @Conservatives:‬

I was told
May told Nissan privately state aid/subsidy rules would be bent to get round any tariffs so they would agree publicly to stay.

Public inquiry required

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 12:22

DG Also maybe as in the UK, business sold off key sectors & let key areas of expertise die out, while the US govt just nodded

Cos profit rules

prettybird · 08/05/2019 12:22

There are some that suggest that the real reason for the second Iraq War wasn't because of non existent WMDs but was because Iraq was supporting the proposal to start trading oil in Euros rather than dollars, which would have screwed the dollar Shock

Of course, having achieved its illegal objective of regime change, the US was then able to ensure that that pesky idea died a death Hmm

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 12:25

Jesus could be walking amongst us as we speak ....He'd be getting his costume ready for the Eurovision Song Contest in his home town. Big gay scene there. smile He swung both ways, no?

I know Russell Brand is a bit Marmitey, but he does quite a good routine about the way the Bible regards ox-coveting as worthy of a commandment, whilst easing your erect penis into another mans anus doesn't really feature ...

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 12:29

There are some that suggest that the real reason for the second Iraq War wasn't because of non existent WMDs but was because Iraq was supporting the proposal to start trading oil in Euros rather than dollars, which would have screwed the dollar

The petrodollar theory ...

Notes that the "axis of evil" was co-incidentally a list of countries that either had rejected the dollar - or that were going to.

China has no need of it's military might. It could cripple the US with a simple declaration in the peoples assembly. Quite a power to have - arguably even more powerful than the US at the height of the cold war. Let's hope they use it wisely ....

TheMShip · 08/05/2019 12:37

Ooh interesting news from the Peterborough by election:

Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
·
4m
Hearing Change UK, Lib Dems and Greens considering all backing the same independent Remain candidate in Peterborough

1tisILeClerc · 08/05/2019 12:38

Well I like this headline.
news.sky.com/story/sheep-registered-as-pupils-in-bid-to-save-classes-at-french-alps-primary-school-11714338

The world needs more of this.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/05/2019 13:13

That's baaaaats ! Grin

prettybird · 08/05/2019 13:20

It has not been revealed what the sheep will be studying, but Sky News understands it could include m-ewe-sic.

Grooooaaaan Wink

RedToothBrush · 08/05/2019 13:24

Hearing Change UK, Lib Dems and Greens considering all backing the same independent Remain candidate in Peterborough

HALLE-FUCKING-LUUUJJJAAHHHH

OP posts:
1tisILeClerc · 08/05/2019 13:25

I suppose it is one way to encourage kids to become vegetarians.....

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