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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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Mistigri · 07/05/2019 21:47

Our French electoral cards arrived today. Apparently there are 33 lists to chose from. I have so far ruled out the Royalists and the Esperanto parties. Ho hum.

33, but most of them are chancers and cranks. Still at least the national lists mean that unless you vote for one of the really minority parties, your vote counts.

woman19 · 07/05/2019 21:50

LOTS of remain anger out there that the meejah are ignoring
Laughter at Chakrabarti's utter nonsense about a 'labour's brexit' on Any Questions at 14.19 much to her annoyance Grin Fraser Nelson and the absent tory barely registered with the audience. They were an irrelevance. This was in Berkhamsted, Herts. (true blue tory country).

the Tories been slaughtered in? Chelmsford, Essex, Winchester, Hants, Vale of White Horse, Oxfordshire, St Albans, Herts - all the leafy, moneyed commuter places
Yup.

ContinuityError · 07/05/2019 22:31

I’ve always wondered how it is possible for English students (who are currently EU nationals) to pay full university fees in Scotland, whilst EU27 students don’t have to pay any fees.

It’s allowable to discriminate between students from different parts of an individual member state but not not to discriminate against those from other parts of the EU. So EU27 countries pay the same £1820 fees as Home students (Scottish Government pays the Home student fees) and rUK pays £9250 fees.

Under devolved powers, the Scottish Government chose to fund its own students. The English Government chooses not to fund its own students.

England also chose to remove the nursing bursary - Scotland didn’t (and is currently steadily increasing the value of it).

English students could chose to study in Ireland and pay the same fees as all the EU nations (and which are generally cheaper than the £9250 per year fees) - for now at least. International fees will make that prohibitive.

dreichuplands · 07/05/2019 22:37

I mostly spend my time with Tory voting business people, they are very unimpressed by Brexit and have no support for the Tories or Labour. Most of their parents seem in favor of Brexit or at least to have voted for it.

prettybird · 07/05/2019 22:40

Littlespaces - if your dd has a teaching qualification, she should be able to get registered with the GTCS (costs around £200 I think) and can then apply for Scottish jobs. The major complication is that at secondary level, you can only teach if you have a degree in the relevant subject (eg a French degree to teach French) and have done your teacher training in it (not sure if there is an "teaching experience/job experience" way around that, especially for the techy subjects). Not sure how primary teaching is done but I'm sure you either need a B.Ed or a PGDE.

Oubliette and Buffy - I think the reason for being able to charge higher fees to English students is precisely because Scotland is not an independent country Confused - so it's deemed to be "regional" differences. So it charges English students what Scottish students are charged if they go to England. Ironically, if Scotland had gained its independence in 2016 as the Yes Campaign wanted, and managed to stay (as a minimum) in EFTA then English students would currently be enjoying the Scottish fee rates Grin And yes, Irish (but not NI) students are classified as EU so just pay fees of £1850 (?) we don't pay it anyway SAAS does NI I think pay whatever they're charged in NI - no idea how much that is. Wales also has a different fee regime.

The maintenance loan scheme is different too - it starts getting paid back at a lower rate.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/05/2019 22:50

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ContinuityError · 07/05/2019 22:51

Welsh students pay the full fees but can get a maintenance grant plus a loan (depending on family income).

NI students studying in NI also pay reduced fees (as do EU27 students) and rUK students pay the full £9250. Think there are also some special provisions for students from Ireland studying in NI.

Motheroffourdragons · 07/05/2019 22:57

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Motheroffourdragons · 07/05/2019 23:09

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icannotremember · 07/05/2019 23:23

I can't believe I lived to see the day that Michael Heseltine declared he would not vote Conservative.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/05/2019 00:30

Today I saw a hand lettered sign on the A29 between Five Oaks & Pulborough reading :
“ Honk if you like Brexit & Prosperity.

Stiff like that is soooo depressing. How can anyone think this is a path to prosperity when the Brexiters in chief concede that it isn't.

I saw similar stuff on a FB local page today. Not where I live now but from my home town. Some one asked is 'anyone else having trouble selling their house..is it Brexit or what? '
Loads of other locals then piled in with ' there's lots of reasons why' - "it's nothing to do with Brexit" etc.

DH saw FiL over the bank holiday too. Lots of ranting at Vince Cable on the TV who shouldn't be called a democrat apparently. Followed by other ranting at how hardly any of our footballers are English.

It's just soul destroying.

lonelyplanetmum · 08/05/2019 00:30

Stuff not stiff!

LonelyTiredandLow · 08/05/2019 06:06

Morning reminder that all options lead to betrayal on my fb today.

I see another school shooter incident in US, as someone sadly predicted on here last week Sad

Iambuffy · 08/05/2019 07:07

Any news from May's meeting with Brady?

woman19 · 08/05/2019 07:27

for the EU citzs struggling to sort out voting
Dunt suggests it's a cock up not conspiracy, but EU citz are certainly being disenfranchised.
www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/05/07/disenfranchised-how-eu-citizens-were-stopped-from-voting-in

RedToothBrush · 08/05/2019 08:12

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
EXCLUSIVE Tory MPs give Theresa May until 4pm on Wednesday to set out 'roadmap' for her exit
t.co/5wVF2OB943 via @Telegraph

Sam Coates Times@samcoatestimes
Times p1

Defiant May could stay until autumn after inventing new “summer recess” deadline that would delay leadership contest
t.co/Bdgs6n1j9V

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Peregrina · 08/05/2019 08:28

I've just caught then end of Michael Heseltine on Newsnight, and i think he was saying he would not vote conservative on Brexit just now.

Blimey! He was a maverick as an MP and aspired very much to be PM.

Motheroffourdragons · 08/05/2019 09:11

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LonelyTiredandLow · 08/05/2019 09:31

Looks as if Frottage is going to stand in GE as he poaches Tory donors in advance.

bluebell34567 · 08/05/2019 09:34

it was already a mess, it will get more unbearable in the hands of May and Corbyn.

Songsofexperience · 08/05/2019 10:22

The Beeb sticking its oar in and the DM happy to stir:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7004691/EUs-chief-Brexit-negotiators-brand-Theresa-insane-foul-mouthed-rant.html

DGRossetti · 08/05/2019 10:33

Looks like we're getting back to normal service Grin

Being in Brum (notice the swerve to avoid calling myself Brummie Grin) it's a diverse life. We have a local Muslim charity called "The Bearded Broz" who run a foodbank in a non preachy way. Occasionally they'll post videos which pop up on my Facebook feed showing the work they do. Just seen one for the start of Ramadan with a quote from the big M. Regardless of how many times you have given to charity; regardless of how many times you've prayed; regardless of what good you have done: if your neighbour has gone to be hungry and you are not concerned, then you are not even a Muslim

We know, of course, that our beloved leader (PBUH) has repeated made a point about her "faith". But it's not the only way ...

I'd happily invite 100 Bearded Broz in to the Uk in exchange for a Farage and Robinson.

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
LonelyTiredandLow · 08/05/2019 10:52

DGR - I think some Leavers may be secretly quite pleased to see people they know forced back to UK and looking at grotty flats Sad It's definitely dog eat dog out there.

Labour MEP now keeps saying people should vote Labour so as not to 'split their vote' Hmm It is very sad as I do know most of them have supported remain and know the dangers of Brexit. Sadly for them their leadership would rather be a hypocrite to appeal to the ones who missed the memo.

The new Brexit/deal/whateverthefuckitis date in July is just before my birthday. Am now experiencing the rage pp had in March Angry. I only get to go out child free for one night every year...

1tisILeClerc · 08/05/2019 10:53

While that BBC clip and DM comment made in Brussels may not be complimentary, you can't say it isn't accurate.
Approaching 3 years, and the UK hasn't even come up with a plan, let alone started the necessary negotiations.

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