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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 10:45

And I would have thought that Sinn Fein supporters would be better served if their MPs did the same.

Except Sinn Fein have never (I am happy to be corrected) made a secret of the fact that they will not take their seats if/when elected. So the people voting for them are under no illusions as to the outcome. And still they vote for them.

lonelyplanetmum · 07/05/2019 11:12

Not following the theme of the thread because I'm very behind but as an aside I just got a leaflet from the Faragit party. It says:

" This battle is no longer just about the EU"

I thought that was that party's sole agenda. Yours Confusedly.

borntobequiet · 07/05/2019 11:15

No, the Faragit (great name) is now focusing on the Conspiracy against the People as per the turquoise shape shifting conspiracy theorists, because he has realised that many of his followers will believe almost anything, and the more batshit the better.

lonelyplanetmum · 07/05/2019 11:34

Yes it's quite interesting NF's trying the "MPs have defied you line". Yet when TM tried that speech which was effectively pitting the people against Parliament it really did not go down well.

It's the same message but apparently is only acceptable if it comes from a maverick outsider.

lonelyplanetmum · 07/05/2019 11:37

On the Sinn Fein front I find it bizarre that we got into this mess because of all the profound dishonourable lies the Leave campaign told.

Yet Sinn Fein could help get us out of this mess - if only they'd take their seats and be a bit dishonourable about saying this oath..
“I … swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to Law. So help me God.”

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 11:43

Farage and the far right are also climate change deniers

  • all that support from US oligarchs behind them - and in the EP they unite with other far right parties to try to water down or vote out environmental measures

e.g. my local AfD had posters up angrily denouncing diesel emission limits and CO2 limits, as being against workers

Anyone who supports the Greens / environmental policies - and then votes BREX - should realise they are voting to try to weaken environmental policy across the entire EU bloc

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 11:44

Yet Sinn Fein could help get us out of this mess - if only they'd take their seats and be a bit dishonourable about saying this oath..

I really don't see how saving the UK from it's own self inflicted misery is in any way something Sinn Fein can be expected to get behind.

Particularly when all indications are that it's much more likely to hasten the united Ireland they are committed to.

In that respect, they're in the same boat as the SNP.

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 11:45

lonelyplanet actually my leave friend thought TM's speech was marvellous! She said it 'spoke to her' Hmm
So it is definitely something a certain section of society wants to believe.

They honestly still think "leave means leave" which is a thing that is possible without any discussion.

woman19 · 07/05/2019 11:47

faragit frit

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 11:48

Sinn Fein will never swear allegiance to either the UK or its monarch

- and certainly not to save the UK from disaster

Their own supporters would regard this as a betrayal of decades of Irish Republicans who also refused

They signed a peace treaty, but that doesn't make them our friends

Besides, Brexit has already increased support for Irish reunification and would make it happen earlier

Peregrina · 07/05/2019 11:50

Farage is not standing because he knows he would lose, and look even more stupid.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 11:50

Dublin thought we were friends
Boy, have they learned better

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 11:50

Why I feel very little sympathy for and her lack of popularity

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 11:51

Wise words ....

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 11:54

Am I missing something but MEP's can't decide whether we pay £39m to EU, right? If he thought that was a serious pledge he'd be standing in a GE?

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 11:55

Either way it is clear nothing on his agenda will be done quickly and the repercussions will be very long lasting. It really looks as if they never want to trade with EU again Hmm

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 11:56

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/04/shortage-fruit-pickers-britain-compete-germany

Telling last sentence - not what Brexiteers are going to want to hear or promote ...

Marston predicted that the UK would one day follow suit. “We, like other sectors in the food industry, will have to start looking outside the European area for staff.”

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 11:56

Only the UK govt decide what we pay - and international law & courts, if we refuse to pay legal obligations

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 11:59

Of course the very existence of the Brexit party and their barmy policies - especially if they have some wider support - is they make the job of whoever is tasked with actually dealing on behalf of the UK much much harder.

Camerons strategy should have been to marginalise the "loony right", not empower them.

DarlingNikita · 07/05/2019 11:59

Thanks Red. I've also written to my MP (arch-Corbynista) to say that I'll be voting for Not Labour in the Euros. Not that she cares.

I was going to write to Seb Dance to apologise and explain myself about not voting for him, but have changed my mind as he's been toeing the party line and has disappointed me.

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 12:01

Wondering if there are any legal applications - inciting votes for fraud contrary to international law or something?

BorisBogtrotter · 07/05/2019 13:19

I'm shocked that despite Farage having been exposed as having antisemitic views there isn't a thread on mumsnet claiming that all Jewish communities are now living in fear.

I knew about his appearances on infowars a while ago, and that he and other leave campaigners have often used the terms that are dog whistle antisemitism.

This is far more blatant than anything done by Corbyn or other, yet the MN politicos seem to be unmoved by it.

As I've said before, antisemitism on the left has been used as a politically expedient reason to discredit Corbyn, the stuff with the mural/laying wreathes pales in comparison to the Farage stuff ( and in intent) but this gets no passing comment.

bellinisurge · 07/05/2019 13:57

I can only speak for myself @BorisBogtrotter and say that antisemitism is on the rise from various quarters and, other than expecting better from the Labour Party, I don't see it as a uniquely Labour thing.
My late Dad was Jewish and, for the first time in my life, I am careful about who I tell that to in real life. Same for my dd, obviously.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 14:11

I agree it's astonishing what Farage gets away with - at least until he delivers the UK to the US multinationals and the oligarchs, ready for looting.

It's been known for years that Farage marched around Dulwich college (as a student there) chanting "Gas the Jews"

No abject apologies from him, only the "justification"Hmm being that there were riots elsewhere at the time

  • mostly by those of Afro-Caribbean origin, but it's all furrin invaders to him
BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 14:13

All the fuss over Amber Rudd saying "coloured", when Farage and his cronies use n@@@er and n@g-n@g

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