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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 14:17

n@g-n@g

A phrase Reginald D. Hunter pointed out was a bit camp, compared to the old-school US racist epithets ...

Ultimately, that's what shows racists up as being morons - their terribly limited and unimaginative vocabulary ...

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 14:18

What talks with the EU ?
It's WA, Revoke, No Deal, or a PV on some combination of those

The only "talk" would be to request an extension for PV

Frankiestein402 · 07/05/2019 14:20

The 'no deal', 'just get on with it', 'leave now', 'jfdi', 'I'm bored of brexit' are simply asking for 'no deal with Europe' - which means stopping trade with the EU member states.

The 'no deal' shorthand obscures this - we need to find a way of emphasising they are asking for a halving of UK trade for the forseeable future - it's the 'halve trade' option - only signing the withdrawal agreement prevents this - other than revoke of course.

BorisBogtrotter · 07/05/2019 14:21

Fortunately for Farage, the EU parliament has no role in negotiations.

But he'd know that if he turned up enough.

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 14:25

Farage demands role in talks with EU if his party wins Euro elections

Strictly for domestic consumption. He'd shit a brick if they actually responded.

BollocksToBrexit · 07/05/2019 14:41

Farage demands role in talks with EU if his party wins Euro elections

Excellent. He can serve the tea and biscuits and clear up afterwards.

Icantreachthepretzels · 07/05/2019 14:49

From squinting at the turquoise pledge in the background of a photo on twitter - it seems a vote for brex is a vote for wto brexit - but then the turquoise git should get a place in the 'talks'.

So one of my questions about the no deal plan was - do you man no deal forever or until we can get a 'good' deal ... they seem to believe the latter.
OK - let's gloss over the part where the EU won't even start talks until we sign the W.A (because why bang your head against that brick wall?) what do they want these talks to look like? what do they want to get out of them? what do they intend to do if they can't get them? How do they expect people to recognise whether the eventual deal is brexit or treason and support/ decry it appropriately? And how are they going to help prop up British businesses, protect British jobs and keep food affordable whilst we are in a trade dealless no man's land?

Answer all that - with no reference to cake, unicorns or fudge ... and they have a position that can be stood on.
But anyone who votes for the brex party without all those questions clearly answered is a fucking idiot, as well as a facist enabler, and they are just going to have to suck up the judgement and name calling because it will be well deserved.

tobee · 07/05/2019 15:05

Dd not happy to receive Brexit Party communication this morning. Only one in our house to get anything so far and it's this!

We contemplated burning it immediately but is it even worth wasting a match? And contributing to climate change? Grin

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 15:23

The Rory statement is quite interesting isn't it? The thing Brexiteers forget is that the Remain vote on the whole is younger and at some point will reverse all this rubbish.

So the Brexit Party and the Tory Party have both backed the wrong horse.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 15:27

Our dc have only received Lib Dem leaflets.

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 15:31

The Rory statement is quite interesting isn't it? The thing Brexiteers forget is that the Remain vote on the whole is younger and at some point will reverse all this rubbish.

I'd argue the opposite - they haven't forgotten. They are acutely aware of it. Hence the undignified, unseemly and undemocratic rush to try and bulldoze Brexit through before the paint was dry.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 15:37

But there is no point. It will get reversed.

Crazy.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 15:38

Unless they try and impose some sort of dictatorship with a rule that Brexit must mean Brexit for the next hundred years. And all dictatorships fail.

woodpigeons · 07/05/2019 15:48

I haven’t received any leaflets and nobody has knocked on my door. Was quite looking forward to seeing off the Tories or labour.
Feeling quite ignored but did get my postal vote for the council elections and a card saying my eu election vote would arrive sometime.

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 15:59

Unless they try and impose some sort of dictatorship with a rule that Brexit must mean Brexit for the next hundred years.

Maybe now the past 2½ years start to make sense. How much of it has been a round-the-houses attempt to do the one thing we've all been told is impossible, and bind future parliaments to this single decision ?

It's odd, given all analysis of what's going on, and what could happen that such a fucking obvious point could have slipped me by .. it's like hypnotism by wig Grin. But now it's been raised, it's so obvious.

No only has Theresa May got to "get Brexit over the line". She has to do it in such a way that she cuts off the route for a Tory breakaway party to suddenly appear and campaign for the next election on a rejoin platform. And when you think in those terms the sudden desire to "reach out" to Corbyn seems much more about trying to get him to sign up to that agenda than actually completing Brexit.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 16:05

Exactly. He would be an utter fool to have anything to do with it.

However even if he does the youth will move to one of the other EU friendly / green parties.

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 16:08

As predicted (by me)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48188951

The UK will have to fight European elections, despite hopes from the government a Brexit deal would be done by then, says the PM's de facto deputy.

(contd) ...

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 16:09

Signing a USA FTA would make it very difficult, expensive and delayed to Rejoin:

  • Lower standard US products throughout the UK food chain

  • US multinationals able to sue the govt for any loss of profits

  • Guaranteed high prices for US drugs & medicinal products throughout Uk healthcare

That's why the fury at the backstop, the CU, the SM or anything else that constrains the trade deals the Uk can make
That's why all the demand that the UK must be free to trade with whoever it wants.

It's all about trying to fix the UK in the grasp of the US multinationals
and no US President, including a Democrat, would help remove these commitments, once an FTA has been signed

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 16:12

Signing a USA FTA would make it very difficult, expensive and delayed to Rejoin

While that's true, there's precious little signs of it happening that soon ...

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 16:14

Whichever way you look at it Brexit is a broken project. It is all about the amount of time it takes to self implode.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 16:27

DG I agree, hence the panic - the Tory right have partly realised this too

Icantreachthepretzels · 07/05/2019 16:30

However the only way we can sign a USA FTA is if we have broken the GFA in some manner or other ... and the USA will not sign a FTA if we break the GFA, so we can't break it if we want a trade deal with America ... but we can't have a trade deal with America without putting up some kind of border in Ireland, first.

Bit of a catch 22 that they might have wanted to think about before they embarked on this disaster project.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 16:30

They don't think.

Littlespaces · 07/05/2019 16:31

(Apart from their own shitty little careers and money).