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Brexit

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...

939 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2019 09:48

Admitting the mandate for leaving has expired.

The newspapers today are full of Talk of both Corbyn and May panicking that Brexit is destroying their parties, so after nearly 3 years of party politics they have decided that actually they can agree on something in the next week or so. Not because it's in the national interest but because they don't fancy mutual self assured destruction.

If they do manage to cobble something together then it with be rushed and shite.

If they don't they will be punished at the Euro elections by a Remain / Leave pincer action.

They can spin it all they like from their local election disaster that it was people wanting to get on with Brexit. It certainly does not change the reality that those people who were most likely to vote are fed up with the pair of them. And that there is a strong indication that the most motivated voters are remain leaning. Perhaps its true that leavers stayed home in protest. If they did, what will they do if the Brexit Party stand candidates at a general election? Maybe they will vote, but you can't argue that they view voting itself as an important act. Spoilt ballots were up, but not that up. If the pair do manage a deal, then we have Brexited which might satisfy some. The trouble is the underlying issues are not to do with the European Union. And even if we leave with a deal that does not resolve our future trading relationship. The poison that is Brexit won't end. And the voters will realise that soon enough. Leaving even with a deal will harm the economy, and that's only going to fuel discontent.

It's therefore hard to see where either party go from here. Not when they are effectively split internally. The poison is here to stay.

Spinning it as 'it shows the public want us to get on with Brexit' isn't going to help their cause with voters who still think leaving is a national disaster. Those voters will still think its a national disaster and will be even more pissed at being ignored and dismissed once again.

Where is the incentive to return to voting Labour or Conservative?

The Euro Elections, if they go ahead, will therefore be about one thing and one thing only: turnout. Even if the Brexit Party do relatively well, it will be about how many turnout in comparison to the locals and in comparison to the last EU elections. Whilst they might not admit the reality of things, ultimately all Labour and Conservatives really care about is securing the vote of people who will vote because voting intention doesn't win them seats if people don't turnout.

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Peregrina · 07/05/2019 08:32

Farage can't be said to be a hard working MEP. The only things which appear to work hard are his mouth and his beer glass raising arm.

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2019 08:37

HateIsNotGood can you read?

I said that some people wouldn't care about the quality of candidates regardless of how much attention there was on it.

I said that many - note not all - who are voting for the Brexit Party voted Ukip previously.

I was very deliberate in my language and saying that it was the case for some.

I find it especially ironic, that despite your protests that you do research, never voted Ukip etc that you will still vote for the Brexit Party.

You obviously think that making a protest vote for the Brexit Party led by Nigel Farage (which all votes for the Brexit Party are because they literally have one policy and their point is that the other parties are not delivering Brexit) isn't potentially dangerous. Which many people, including many who do support Brexit think Farage is dangerous to the country because of his far right beliefs and because of some of the candidates he's picked because of their somewhat dubious past connections - notably the ones who supported the IRA's 'right' to kill civilians including children without condemnation. If you believe that children are fair collateral damage for one issue, then you believe they do not deserve protection from all harm and that's a very troubling position to have as you have made an active assessment over the circumstances in which it is OK to harm children.

Which was my point all along.

Your protestation, I take as nothing more than being pissed at someone holding a mirror to your own decision making process in which you do not care about the candidates because making your protest is more important...

It's amusing to see.

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frumpety · 07/05/2019 08:45

I guess that's a fair point Pretty , I just feel its a bit odd to vote for someone who has absolutely no interest in doing the job they are being voted to do and would actually prefer that the job didn't exist Smile

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 08:46

Just back from my constitutional (1km swim Halo) and one thing was niggling as I let my mind idly wander ...

Intriguingly, Theresa May’s own newest cabinet colleagu Rory Stewart agrees you need a permanent deal that last for 30 years

I think this is one of those flashes of truth that is so bright, it goes unseen. For me, it certainly highlights what has, is and will always be the problem with any "Brexit" predicated upon such a knife edge result.

For all their bluster, bravado and bollocks, Brexiteers are keenly aware that whatever deal(s) get cobbled together in the next 2,3,5 years, they will always be under the cloud of the increased likelihood of the UK rejoining the EU. And even if they aren't aware (because let's be honest, the "B" in Brexit can hardly have been said to stand for "brains") the people they will be doing the deals with are. Very aware.

It really is a limbo of the worst kind. Brexiteers are unable to guarantee anything that could happen in the next 5 years. As we well know, no parliament can bind it's successors.

I suspect there is a Tory school of thought that has seen into the future ... a Corbyn-less Labour suddenly resurgent on a rejoin ticket could win a majority eclipsing the sour, tired, has-been Euro-whinging Tories.

I'm not saying that situation hasn't been discussed previously .... but it's the first time a cabinet minister has been so clear ...

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 08:49

I wonder how many people voted National Socialist because of their childcare policies ?

Peregrina · 07/05/2019 08:54

A lot of Germans voted National Socialist because Hitler brought work. Which is a perfectly desirable thing to want. The trouble was, they didn't question or not enough, and when they did begin to question it was too late.

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2019 09:02

New website The Wives of Westminster

www.thewivesofwestminster.com/

Looks amazing. In it we have such articles as 'The Wives Of Westminster Project Is Reaching Out For Equality', 'Wives Of Politicians Are More Than Just Pretty Accessories' and 'Felicity Cornelius-Mercer:”I Feel Valued As A Partner In Work As Well As Life”' in which we can be patronised and framed as second to men whilst simultaneously claiming its all feminist.

I look forward to Husbands of Westminster being a thing. Or husbands and boyfriends (HaBs for short) in general.

#2019feelinglike1970

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ContinuityError · 07/05/2019 09:05

Just as well they didn’t call themselves Wives of Parliamentarians Smile

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 09:09

"The Wives of Westminster" ... hardly inclusive is it ?

RedToothBrush · 07/05/2019 09:13

Poor Phillip.

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RedToothBrush · 07/05/2019 09:20

Do you think the mirror was reading Westminstenders last night whilst i was bored?

Mirror politics @ mirrorpolitics
'Prince Andrew lookalike who'll awkwardly tell Theresa May to quit over Brexit'
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-tell-theresa-quit-15007701.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Top Tory to tell Theresa May to quit over Brexit: Mirror Politics morning briefing
Sir Graham Brady is preparing for a difficult chat with the Prime Minister

Westminstenders: Lets get on with...
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LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 09:32

What do all of the people suggesting TM should quite think will happen if she did? Bojo swoops in and...erm...what exactly? Start again? Declare a no deal and then have to admit they need to sign the WA after all regardless? Confused

LonelyTiredandLow · 07/05/2019 09:32

quite = quit

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 09:34

Top Tory to tell Theresa May to quit over Brexit

And if she doesn't ?

While removing her might appease "the party", it's not a great look for the UK. Especially if Labour move quickly .... oh, no that'll never happen.

Of course a halfway decent opposition would have been keeping up the pressure for May to go such that should the Tory party finally remover her, Corbyn could print a public letter thanking them for taking Labour advice in this key matter. If for no other reason than I'[d like to imagine a parade of Tories squirming under successive interviews where they are asked how it feels to have followed a Labour suggestion ....

Oh, hang on. That won't happen either. I guess it's back to my imagination ...

DGRossetti · 07/05/2019 09:38

What do all of the people suggesting TM should quite think will happen if she did? Bojo swoops in and...erm...what exactly? Start again?

and how will the UK convince anyone that it's a stable situation ? How likely is whatever gets "decided" to last 5 minutes, let alone five years ?

As Rory kindly noted, 30 years stability is more the vision ...

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 09:48

pretty Big difference is that SNP aren't a fascist party
That for me is the most important thing about BREX

I wouldn't care if a party didn't take its seats - that can be very principled:

My objection to Sinn Fein is their close associations with the violent IRA, not that they don't take up their Westminster seats

The original UKIP, founded by Alan Sked, was intended to be liberal and his policy was not to take the EP seats, salary or allowances

That was bery principled - and of course caused another fierce argument with the money-grabbing Farage, before Farage took his party away from him

prettybird · 07/05/2019 09:51

Does Rory Stewart not mean "stability in 30 years" Wink

Bless him though, he does think positively if unrealistically Grin He was the one that tried to get the "Hands over Scotland"project going during the Indyref campaign: a chain of people stretching across the length of the border to demonstrate the strength of feeling for being part of the Union. When he didn't get much take up (Wink), he changed it to building a cairn where people could put stones with their message of how much the Union meant to them Hmm Apparently if you go searching, the small pile of stones cairn is still there, somewhere round the back of the retail park at Gretna Grin

borntobequiet · 07/05/2019 09:53

Even though most people seem to think May is doing a very bad job I'm pretty sure they don't think any of the other numpties would do a better one. So getting rid of Theresa is a pretty bad idea imo.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 09:55

If we had a decent Opposition leader, then a GE to replace May by a Labour PM would rescue the country
As it is, Corbyn still seems toxic on the doorstep, if we believe the local election canvassers and the polls.

Unfortunately, polls mean the Tories would not dare risk a GE,
so if the 1922 Committee change its rules after their expected EP election disaster,
then May's replacement would probably be the unscrupulous Boris, most unllikely to be anyone with a sensible policy to resolve Brexit

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 09:56

pretty and Miliband was slated for the Ed Stone Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 07/05/2019 10:01

"A lot of Germans voted National Socialist because Hitler brought work"

That's the problem with focusing on one issue and ignoring what evil bastards you are voting for

A policy can be quite anodyne or even praiseworthy,
but fascists - or communists - make use of voters who "don't care about anything else", to gain power

havingtochangeusernameagain · 07/05/2019 10:18

The difference is that the SNP MPs do bother to turn up, contribute to debates and select committees and are generally pretty hard working at WM

And I would have thought that Sinn Fein supporters would be better served if their MPs did the same. They could have played a significant role in the indicative vote process for example. I know they work hard as constituency MPs but there are times when their voices should be heard in the UK parliament.

borntobequiet · 07/05/2019 10:29

The sinn Fein situation is comples. Here's Gerry Adams explaining:
www.thejournal.ie/readme/gerry-adams-what-kind-of-irish-leader-would-swear-loyalty-to-the-english-queen-3445914-Jun2017/

borntobequiet · 07/05/2019 10:30

complex

borntobequiet · 07/05/2019 10:31

Damn! Sinn Fein

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