Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

[RedToothBrush]

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

PMK I missed most of the last thread Happy Zombie Jesus day for tomorrow everyone

I’ll add my zonked out feline.

bellinisurge

partly laughing my arse off

Personally, I don't think a young woman's death is a laughing matter - but if it fits your agenda to say so...

Seriously, a new low is reached

I wasn't overly impressed with several posters yesterday (on the other thread) - who were trying to make Leave voters culpable for Lyra McKee's death - Mistigri included - she seems ill-informed.

violence we've had sporadically since the GFA

Not exactly sporadic - there were dozens more headlines I could have chosen;

April 2016 "Violent paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland has resulted in 1,100 bombings and shootings over the past 10 years, along with almost 800 so-called punishment attacks and 4,000 cases of people being forced out of their homes."

820 police officers injured in one year of rioting (2013/14)

Mistigri

Does anyone ever click on them? It's a good thing she's being paid or it'd be a terrible waste of her time.

Paid?!
I don't expect anyone to click on my links, hence the highlights - 20 mins to google: NI riots/violence 2013, 2014, 2015...not much time.

TatianaLarina
nothing to do with Brexit links

That's exactly what the "IRA" said in their statement in Jan (following the Derry car bomb);

"In the statement the group denied that Brexit was a motivating factor for their actions."

“All this talk of Brexit, hard borders, soft borders, has no bearing on our actions and the IRA won’t be going anywhere.”

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-nireland-blast/ira-claims-responsibility-for-londonderry-car-bomb-idUKKCN1PN1L0

thread about how hard it is (for some) to get a GP appointment

Yeah ... anecdotally it's very patchy. My ILs have great GP services. My mum's GP practice is so bad that I am planning to pay for her to have a knee x-ray and see a specialist here in France.

The Troubles: More than 3,600 people were killed
of whom 52% were civilians, 32% were members of the British security forces, 16% were members of paramilitary groups.

However imperfect the GFA, it ended a bloody civil war
The referendum and its incompetent handling by Westminster is fanning the embers again

The police raids into Derry, during which Lyra McKee was murdered,
were to thwart the recent buildup by an IRA splinter group of money -obtained from stolen cash machines - and weapons

Lovely pic ContinuityError

This was what I came back to this afternoon having left the sun lounger momentarily to go upstairs to pour myself a cup of tea

prettybird you snooze, you lose

So all you manage to confirm Clavinova is that the Peace in N Ireland is still quite fragile. Well, well done you as a Leaver for at least realising that; it's a start.

If Clavinova is being paid, someone is wasting their cash.

Struggling to get to the high moral ground there Clavinova .
You clearly know absolutely fuck all about NI.

Brexit is just so full of coincidences, eh?
Like car firms leaving, banks leaving, Jo Cox being killed, rise in racist hate crime, brain drain, loss of global standing, escalation of troubles in NI...It's just fascinating how many COINCIDENCES that to the untrained leaver observer look just so remarkably like they are connected

@LonelyTiredandLow ,yes, anyone would think that adding chaos and uncertainty to NI by fucking with GFA was a monumentally stupid and dangerous idea.

It was me that mentioned how much I blame ordinary leavers for Thursday's events, on the thread, yesterday. Misti just agreed, so I don't think it's fair she got called out for it.

I stand by what I said.

You voted for brexit? Then you voted to break the GFA.
You've not realised how wrong that was and regret it, bitterly? Then you're happy to see a civil war rebreak out in Northern Ireland so that you can drag us all out of a trading bloc.
Yes I judge. And I judge those that try to prove they haven't contributed to the violence with their vote even more harshly.

I'd say I'm sorry If brexit voters find that a bitter pill to swallow - but I really don't care. Their actions have had consequences. And one of those consequences is that people will judge them for what they chose to allow to happen (alongside much more serious and tragic consequences). And, unlike politicians, I'm not going to lie to them and pretend it isn't so and that any good is still salvageable from this three year long disaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/20/uk-born-baby-of-parents-with-right-to-remain-given-six-month-tourist-stamp

A baby born in the UK to two parents < US & EEA citizens > who have indefinite leave to remain in Britain has been denied the right to live in the country
.....
“A stamp was put in the passport, saying she [the baby] has six months to be here as long as she does not engage in work
....
Jacqueline McKenzie, an immigration lawyer:
“the law is clear that a child born in the UK to a person with indefinite leave to remain is British and therefore entitled to evidence of this through registration.
”
McKenzie said what struck her about the story was that the border immigration official was “aggressive and unprepared to reason”.

Are authoritarians drawn to jobs which give them such power over people, or does authoritarianism grow with the job ?

Looks like Labour may have heard us as Watson says they must back a 2nd ref!

BigChoc IIRC there's a link between such jobs and violent crime too - usually they fail to get into the army or police force and feel rejected...and it's usually the former rather than the latter I suspect.

thanks red

It was me that mentioned how much I blame ordinary leavers for Thursday's events, on the thread, yesterday. Misti just agreed, so I don't think it's fair she got called out for it.

I don't mind being called out for it ;)

Quite happy to take responsibility for my opinions. Actions have consequences. They are not always direct, but in this case, the impact on the GFA and the potential for increased tensions were being signalled before the referendum so it can hardly come as a surprise to anyone.

We cannot know for certain if Jo Cox would have lived if there had been no referendum. Likewise, we don't know whether Lyra McKee would be alive today in the absence of Brexit. But we are entitled to point out that Brexiters have whipped up far right hatred, and that Brexiters gave shown an outrageous lack of concern for peace in Ireland. And we are entitled to make links between that hatred and that disdain for peace, and conclude that two brave, talented women might be alive today but for Brexit.

Actions have consequences. People need to take personal responsibility. Don't conservatives believe in that any more?

We also know that a significant number of Leavers have been extremely slow to call out fascism - it's been more of a story of 'nothing to do with me'.

Looks like Labour may have heard us as Watson says they must back a 2nd ref!

Watson is one of the few Labour politicians i've any respect for but i don't think Lab policy will back a 2nd Ref, i also think the Brexit Party will do very well...ending any hope of a 2nd vote let alone a Revoke.

Obviously all assuming the EP elections take place, by no means a certainty.

Quite happy to state that I think all leavers are cunts 😀

Of course they are not, that gets us nowhere, i know plenty of leavers who are not racist or c.u.n.t.s, they are decent hardworking men and women who i fervently disagree with.

They voted for Brexit yes BUT it is the spineless and weak politicians who have carried on with brexit regardless of the consequences.

A strong PM following DC's departure would have just said that A50 wont be triggered because of the GFA and then set about reforming the EU and addressing voters concerns.

Quite happy to state that I think all leavers are cunts 😀
Well, I tend to agree but I do know one who has some redeeming features (and is also ex Army and I think has PTSD... along with deafness from being blown up)

I should make it clear that personally I make a distinction between Brexiters (people who campaign actively for Brexit despite knowing the implications) and leave voters.