Westminstenders: Why the Irish Border isn't a Remain/EU Plot

[RedToothBrush]

I hope the events of this week give the ERG the kick up the backside over this that they need.

I doubt it will, but I live in hope. The alternative is too horrid to contemplate.

I'll leave this here instead as a reminder of what choice Brexit was always going to come down to.

Happy Easter everyone.

Whilst sounding like a 'wet lettuce' 55% just isn't really doing it, there is no fire in the belly to remain.
This would undoubtedly change once the UK leaves and the real implications hit home, but by then it really will be too late.

I am so sad about Lyra McKee.And also sad that the suspects under arrest are 18 and 19 - born after the GFA but still brought up to wreak hate and violence.

This.

OhYouBadBadKitten

Treasure these days while we can.

The pre-referendum days in NI?

April 2016 - 1,100 bombs and shootings in 10 years:The figures that prove terrorism hasn't gone away

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/1100-bombs-and-shootings-in-10-years-the-figures-that-prove-terrorism-hasnt-gone-away-34672253.html

"Violent paramilitary activity in Northern Ireland has resulted in 1,100 bombings and shootings over the past 10 years, along with almost 800 so-called punishment attacks and 4,000 cases of people being forced out of their homes."

"Between 2007 and 2015, just 80 convictions were secured under terrorism legislation, leading to a paltry 48 prison terms."

Match 2016 Prison officer dies following New IRA car bomb attack in Belfast.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/15/belfast-prison-officer-dies-targeted-new-ira-car-bomb-attack-adrian-ismay

November 2015--dissident republican attempt to kill police officers.

"Two police officers investigating a series of shootings and death threats in Northern Ireland were caught in a republican dissident ambush."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/significant-weaponry-used-in-attack-on-police-car-shot-at-in-west-belfast-34238641.html

May 2014 - 25% of Northern Ireland riot police hurt in loyalist clashes in one year.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/28/25percent-northern-ireland-police-injured-sectarian-clashes

part of the reason for the 820 injured officers "was the reluctance of the Police Service of Northern Ireland's commanders to permit the firing of baton rounds and the use of water cannon in riots."

"The organisation said that over the past year its members had been attacked with ceremonial swords and pikes, blast bombs and petrol bombs during trouble at sectarian flashpoints, particularly in Greater Belfast."

January 2013 NI riots make headlines across globe -

"the pictures beamed around the world could give the impression that Belfast is still in the grip of violence"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20947636

Nov 2012 - Northern Ireland prison officer shot dead in motorway ambush

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/nov/01/northern-ireland-prison-officer-motorway

June 2011-The nightmare returns
Three shot in Belfast's worst night of rioting in more than a decade.

Press photographer injured from gunshot wounds

Masked youths attack police vehicles with sledgehammers

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2006580/Belfast-riots-Three-shot-citys-worst-troubles-decade.html

Brexit?

Voters are fickle, opinions change

I'm a bit of an agnostic but for various children related reasons I did end up volunteering at a children's Good Friday service this weekend. The vicar made the point that the bible says in the space of one week the same people went from

1. The Palm Sunday procession with greetings of " Hosanna". ( Happy)

1. Then the crowds switched a few days later crying " Crucify him". (Angry)

1. Then at the end of the week repeating " Christ is risen" ( Joyful)

He made the point that people are changeable and easily influenced and that you should make decisions carefully.

(I , of course, was thinking and that's why we should set higher percentages in referendums or not have them at all. )

PMK

Pmk

Our vicar made the same comments

Looks like it might be a new Daily Express headline about Remoaning Vicar TRAITORS!

Pmk

If the NI Troubles had completely gone away, we wouldn't be worried about them ramping up again

The GFA kept them down to glowing embers, instead of raging conflagrations

but a No Deal Brexit would be pouring petrol on those embers

It wasn't just in NI:
the British govt faced down decades of civilians & security forces being murdered

However, once the IRA switched strategy and carried out just a few bombings on high-value City of London targets, major financial institutions threatened to move abroad
The UK govt caved in and made multiple concessions to the IRA, to get the GFA

So, the IRA & its offshoots have learned how to make the govt cave in

The City - and the UK's dependence on it - has increased greatly since the 1990s
Now visualise after No Deal Brexit, with the pound & the economy crashing.... and then the IRA resumes bombing City targets

DIsastrous for the whole country, not just NI

Nancy Pelosi has told Brexit politicians that if the UK leaves with No Deal,
then the spirit of the GFA is not kept
and a US FTA is unlikely to pass through Congress

In the USA, a President can negotiate trade deals, but if Congress doesn't approve them, then the deal doesn't stand

Clavinova

You've been busy!

Brexit could destroy the GFA, making the violence we've had sporadically since the GFA, mainstream.

If that happens, then we will see a return to British troops on the streets in NI and for what?
Because even you must surely be able to see that what was promised to the UK voters in 2016 simply isn't on offer.

I am partly appalled and partly laughing my arse off that anyone thinks Brexit has no impact on NI.
Seriously, a new low is reached if you think it's fiiiiinnnne in NI if we No Deal Brexit.

PMK, thank you Red & everyone, so very sad about the the violence & death of Lyra McKee in NI so very sad.
I’m also very concerned about the EU elections, just really hoping that it will be clear who is standing for what & the remain vote will mobilise & vote Yy I do find it very confusing candidates/system as I have never really paid much attention before, truly believe though that if brexit/Tories gain seats then it’s game up.

Not Clavinova again and her endless links.

Happy new thread and we all need to remember absolutely non of this mess is that fault of people who voted Brexit.

Not their fault.

At all.

Not Clavinova again and her endless links.

Does anyone ever click on them? It's a good thing she's being paid or it'd be a terrible waste of her time.

I'm past caring whose fault it was, but I do want to know which grown up is going to put their hand up and sort it out.
I suppose it the UK is leaving then Mr Putin could be a candidate.

RIP Lyra McKee

PMK & red for another thread.

So very sad about Lyra McKee.

I'm old & I honestly am feeling as if we are going backwards in every way atm. Very depressing.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/travel/travel-news/its-a-dangerous-myth-we-will-have-more-control-over-borders-post-brexit/20/04/

Chris Hobbs is a retired Met police officer who worked extensively at border controls in both the UK and Jamaica.

If control of our borders and a curb on immigration into the UK was the tipping point in deciding the result of referendum, those who cast their vote on that basis may well be surprised at the likely post-Brexit reality whether there is a deal or not. – This, in spite of government statements supposedly ending freedom of movement.

On the front line, facing this reality, are a UK Border Force created by Theresa May in the aftermath of the pre-London Olympics chaos at airport passport controls.

It’s a border force that currently is in crisis as is so clearly illustrated in successive Home Office staff surveys which many officers refuse to complete as they believe it is a waste of time as no remedial action is taken.

Morale or lack of it, is clearly a huge issue while the survey shows there is little trust in Home Office senior managers and ministers by rank and file officers on the front line.

(contd).

Incidentally, anyone notice the thread about how hard it is (for some) to get a GP appointment ?

The two doctors our practice has lost as a direct result of Brexit won't have helped the situation. And early retirement, and a decision not to hang around .

🕶

I want to steal PrettyBird’s cats. I am a bad, bad human. PMK, obvs.

I am so sad about Lyra McKee. And also sad that the suspects under arrest are 18 and 19 - born after the GFA but still brought up to wreak hate and violence.

And seconding Irene on this point. ^

I spent a relaxing week in a US forest, Brexit free. It has all taken a drepressing and all too predictable turn I see.