Not in my children's name

[drivinmecrazy]

I am getting increasingly angry with this whole issue.
My children were born into a world where they were allowed to dream beyond borders, they had no deal of Empire or even the commonwealth. They were children of an harmonious block of neighbouring allies.
Yet those of us of another generation are doing our utmost to take these opportunities away from them without any good reason.
How are my children's lives going to be improved by Brexit? How are their dreams going to be enhanced by shutting our borders and closing our minds?
As an adult I'm not convinced by the economic benefits we would gain, as a parent I'm certain my children will not benefit from living on a tiny island without favourable economic trading opportunities with our nearest neighbours, or without freedom of movevent of dreams.
I'm crying inside for the things our children may not forgive us for in the future.
My own children are 13 & 18. As you might expect my elder child is desperately hoping for a PV, as are most of her friends. My 13 year old wants to know why we consider ourselves so different to the rest of the EU.
Do you ever think about what is being taken from your children?
I know this is a rather emotive post but I am just so bloody angry on my DD's behalf.
We are not only responsible for the here and now, we need to think to the future generations

I think most of us as parents feel this way yes. I never ever dreamed from wouldn't be an option for them as it was for me, and I didn't even take advantage of it.

I feel exactly the same in respect of my DD, OP, who is rather younger, coming up to 4. A mixture of sadness for her, and incandescent anger at those who stole her future opportunities away from her for no good reason.

There is more to the World than the EU. For information EU represents about 17% of World Trade. So outside the EU there is 83%.

As you might expect my elder child is desperately hoping for a PV, as are most of her friends

And if the result is leave then what? Demand a 3rd, 4th, 5th vote......for all eternity.

My stepdaughter is 25 and she too rambles on about a second vote so I asked her why. The reply was;

It costs me more in pounds to see boyfriend who lives in Germany than before

She voted to leave in 2016 at age 22 as boyfriend at the time was in UK so exchange rates were irrelevant. Main reason she voted leave was that she saw immigrants getting more out of the UK than those who had worked in the UK all their lives. Her UK grandparents receive less in pensions after working in public sector all their lives than her mother receives in benefits who had been in the UK less than 6 years and has yet to pay a penny in UK Tax.

I voted leave as think people in UK should not have to subsidize weaker countries or immigrants who come to UK to claim benefits that don't exist in their native Countries.

Other people voted differently and their view prevailed. That's how politics works. Our children have to make a success of life outside the Eu.
I'm old. I voted Remain. I lived through the Thatcher era and can still see its devastating effect on our country. Other people think differently. Your children get their "revenge " by being successful (in whatever form that takes) despite Brexit.

I hope our children will show their anger at the ballot box. Young people need to vote more; if they did, we would elect pro European parties.

My DD's first vote will be at the EP elections.

Op, I agree with you.

But it's not just my children's advantages in the EU I worry about it's the future in general.

My dd is 13. I worry about the world we are leaving for our children to inherit. Our impact on the environment is unsustainable and we continue to ignore this.

Like a lot of remainers, I don't think the EU is getting it right but I do think they are trying. I worry that the UK will abandon any and all environmental constraints when they leave.

We are 1 world and we only have this world, the future lies in cooperation not protectionism.

I would be happy to be a bit poorer now for a better future but I don't see leaving as delivering this. As sad as i am to leave I could get behind a leave campaign that had a plan to tackle this.

History and our children will judge us harshly for this but it will be too late to undo the damage.

I voted leave as think people in UK should not have to subsidize weaker countries or immigrants who come to UK to claim benefits that don't exist in their native Countries.

You're unaware that EU immigrants as a group subsidize "natives" with regard to taxation revenue? It's unbelievable that so many people sucked up anti-immigrant lies like this without bothering to check facts. Apparently as well as being definitely not racist, leave voters were also definitely not and ignorant. At least that's Tommy Robinson and Now gel Farage's story and they're sticking to it

with regard to taxation revenue

If they are working part time on zero hours contracts they may not earn enough to be liable for Tax, but just be below the threshold whereby they can claim; working tax credits, child tax credits, council tax reduction and child benefits.

All of those benefits are a cost to the UK Taxpayer. So how is it possible that someone who has never paid UK Taxes can receive such benefits?

I feel angry that many children in the UK are doomed to poor life expectancy and limited social mobility simply because of where they were born. There is no political will to improve these children’s outcomes because the class system suits the children of the people who hold power. I am a lot angrier about this than middle-class mothers bleating on about their children having their lives blighted by the referendum vote.

I think out kids have more to worry about in the future than not being in the EU. Climate change for one.

I voted remain btw

I voted leave as think people in UK should not have to subsidize weaker countries

we will be a considerably weaker and poorer country but at least we wont be helping anyone else, eh.

or immigrants who come to UK to claim benefits that don't exist in their native Countries

eu immigrants are net contributors- plus they CAN'T just claim any benefits.

ho hum.

Your anecdotes are irrelevant. The collective data is clear and readily available (HMRC, ONS, BoE) regarding EU citizen demographics, contributions and takeouts. Likewise for British citizens. You've had almost 3 years to Google this but apparently chose to deny children FoM and jeopardise the NHS (staff, medical supplies) and spout Nigel Farage's crap instead.

Time to own your shit.

This is the problem in a nutshell isn’t it - dreaming of a land beyond borders isn’t quite as wonderful when it results in the issues we’ve seen for young people in Greece and Spain.

MayhemNowCertain was the recipient for my last post.

The situation for young people in France is not great at the moment too.

And really, it would be daft beyond all known logic to vote based on the distress caused to two unknown young people.

That isn’t as unsympathetic as it might sound, by the way, but an acknowledgement that all key events have winners and losers. Even the two world wars, horrendous as they were in terms of loss of life and destruction of buildings, also forced the hand of feminism and resulted in key changes that we are still benefiting from today.

Being in the EU brings benefits; we all acknowledge that, but FOM has its flip sides as well as its positives. If you are someone who will only gain from it then that is marvellous, but others have not. It is dramatic and emotive to explode ‘not in my children’s names!’ but the rather cold and callous truth is that people do not vote on what is best for your children, but for theirs.

so lets hear some of the fabulous benefits of brexit. that will cheer up the op.

Time will tell, helmet. I don’t think the benefits, such as they are, will kick in for some time and may not ever be fully realised, just as when you spend a lot of money on a safe car you don’t realise whether that kept you safe unless you are involved in an accident.

In other words, I would expect FOM to mean our population stabilises to a greater extent and I would hope we would encourage our own young people to train in shortage areas, which in turn would I hope give aspirations and dreams for them.

I would hope that a stable population would gradually see house pieces become more in line with wages once again.

I would hope a stable population would mean that education, health care and traffic would become more manageable.

But this will not happen until some two or three decades after leaving.

“I think out kids have more to worry about in the future than not being in the EU. Climate change for one.”

Climate change is another very good reason for staying in the EU since they are also concerned and working on measures to address it.

*In other words, I would expect FOM to mean our population stabilises to a greater extent and I would hope we would encourage our own young people to train in shortage areas, which in turn would I hope give aspirations and dreams for them.
I would hope that a stable population would gradually see house pieces become more in line with wages once again.
I would hope a stable population would mean that education, health care and traffic would become more manageable"

This must be a joke. Brexit is going to make this country poorer, that is going to severely impact on the NHS, the social care system, not to mention the lives of millions of citizens and the GFA.

You've just listed a lot of stuff that you'd like to see, a wish-list that has no basis in reality.

I might as well have said I would hope that a million pounds arrives in my bank-account today because of Brexit.

Unbelievable.

The problem continually is that our population is aging and we don’t have enough young people originating from the uk to support our elderly population. So the population might ‘stabilise’ (whatever that means), but we will then end up with crises in health, social care and a whole range of other areas as there will not be enough staff to support them. It’s really not as simple as stop immigration, all problems solved. Look at Japan.

You actually think FOM is the reason that our education, health care, and er traffic is struggling? You actually think FOM is the reason house prices aren't in line with wages?

Hey guys, the good news about Brexit is once we stop FOM, (which we could have put limits on but didn't) everything will be great - not for your children but for your grandchildren. I would hope. With no basis in reality.

Staggering.

There is no political will to improve these children’s outcomes because the class system suits the children of the people who hold power.

And Brexit will bring the political will about because....?

I would expect
I would hope
I would hope
But this will not happen until some two or three decades after leaving.

None of these sound like positive endorsements for Brexit. Some people do the lottery in the hope that they will win. That doesn't make it happen for the vast majority.

One thing you can almost be 100% sure of - Rees-Mogg is wealthy enough to be able to buy his children a way out of this country if we do suffer from two or three decades of decline. Not so for most of us.

There is life beyond the EU!

Okay boarders around EU will be harder for us to cross. A longer line at the airport but the world is made up of more than Europe and those boarders won't change.