Not in my children's name

[drivinmecrazy]

I am getting increasingly angry with this whole issue.
My children were born into a world where they were allowed to dream beyond borders, they had no deal of Empire or even the commonwealth. They were children of an harmonious block of neighbouring allies.
Yet those of us of another generation are doing our utmost to take these opportunities away from them without any good reason.
How are my children's lives going to be improved by Brexit? How are their dreams going to be enhanced by shutting our borders and closing our minds?
As an adult I'm not convinced by the economic benefits we would gain, as a parent I'm certain my children will not benefit from living on a tiny island without favourable economic trading opportunities with our nearest neighbours, or without freedom of movevent of dreams.
I'm crying inside for the things our children may not forgive us for in the future.
My own children are 13 & 18. As you might expect my elder child is desperately hoping for a PV, as are most of her friends. My 13 year old wants to know why we consider ourselves so different to the rest of the EU.
Do you ever think about what is being taken from your children?
I know this is a rather emotive post but I am just so bloody angry on my DD's behalf.
We are not only responsible for the here and now, we need to think to the future generations

Zen there are already people in the UK who have endured poverty and limited life opportunities for generations. Where was your concern for them or do you only care now that the middle classes are at risk of their lives changing?

@Bowchicawowow , the problem with your argument there is that if everyone is financially screwed the people less able to weather the storm go even further to the back of the queue for national attention and action.

the fact that three years after the vote people still think wc people are going to do well out of brexit is mind-boggling.

It amazes me how the greatest thing about being in the EU is the ability to leave your own country

bellinisurge but that doesn’t really worry the people we are talking about because they feel that they have absolutely nothing to lose.

the ease of trade, which has attracted investment in this country, the academic and science collaboration, the regullations on environment, the way the gfa works are all pretty good stuff.

where are you getting the idea that the eu is only about freedom of movement from?

@Bowchicawowow you can bank on it. England govt screwing over the Irish people again and again. What exactly did you think the result would be? I'm relieved and amazed that the IRA haven't carried out any attacks on London yet, and can only imagine that's because Brexit brings us closer to a border poll and possibly a united ireland. But don't bank on peace continuing if this turns out to be a total shit show for those in NI.

keep in all honesty did you think that people in Doncaster or Wigan who were asked to vote in Brexit gave serious consideration to the NI situation? They voted for according to their own experiences and what they felt would benefit their families. They wouldn’t have thought twice about some people in NI wanted to kill one another because of what religion they are.

They voted for according to their own experiences and what they felt would benefit their families.

well, yes, true of most voters, no?

but now we understand that brexit screws the gfa, that there wont be millions for the nhs, there wont be the easiest trade deals in history, that it will massively harm manufactoring and all our economy - contrary to the blatant lies of the wealthy brexit campaign- then another vote would be helpful.

Don’t slag people off for not anticipating that people in Northern Ireland will start blowing people up because of Brexit. They voted because they aren’t within 10 miles of a decent job, school or hospital.

@Bowchicawowow tbe "people of Wigan" live close enough to a lot of the shit that the IRA have pulled in the NW of England. I know. What with growing up near Wigan.

I am from there. I know. Where are you from?

They voted because they aren’t within 10 miles of a decent job, school or hospital.

and brexit will improve that, how?

It won’t but they were desperate

it wont, exactly, it will make things worse.

people were lied to.

people were lied to

No shit.

I’m an Australian and while I think the whole Brexit saga is nuts and worry about the implications for trade etc I do think the hand wringing over FOM is odd.

Theoretically we don’t have the ability to move anywhere we choose yet that’s exactly what the majority of Australians who wish to do so do. I worked in the UK for several years when younger. There would have been no impediment to me staying there permanently. It has not changed and even post-Brexit the same opportunities would be available for my kids that were available to me. I can’t think of anyone I went to school with that remained in Australia and that’s without ‘FOM’. It’s not hard, qualify and work in an area that is in shortage and there is no issue, you are pretty much free to move and stay wherever you want, it’s just a paperwork issue. Same for people wanting to come and work and live here. I don’t understand the hand wringing over this aspect?

I think the whole Brexit saga is nuts

yes.

i dont think there is hand-wringing over FOM - and i think thats a poor expression - i think its a major right being removed from us and from our friends and family - its an insult to all those whove contributed here and who no longer feel at home. i cant retire to europe now- why should i not complain that that opportunity hasbeen taken from me?

mostly though, i think the loss of fom is a more tangible and easier to discuss thing than the less tangible or demonstrable that our economy isnow shrinking, companies are leaving, and with much less investment, the gfa has been destabilised, and science and research collab have beenput on hold, unless a deal ismade we will experience food and medical shortages.

and for what? for f-all basically.

Where am I from? Lancashire

Wigan hasn't been in Lancashire since 1974. And Lancashire is a very big county. Some parts of it bear no resemblance whatsoever to Wigan.

@Helmetbymidnight - You actually think FOM is the reason that our education, health care, and er traffic is struggling?

I actually think @continuallychargingmyphone is right about brexit improving traffic. Nothing like a good recession, with significantly fewer people in employment, to reduce traffic on our roads. When I'm stuck in traffic on my commute, I think fondly back to the days of the last recession when I could get in and out of work so quickly.

@Bowchicawowow - I hope that people in NI don’t use the Brexit process as a new reason to start killing people on the UK mainland and each other.

That comment only contributes to the notion that leave voters are utterly ignorant. Maybe try and develop some teeny, tiny bit of understanding of the situation in NI and of the GFA before making comments like that.

@Camomila - Practically, my DS may not lose out on that much as he is entitled to an Italian passport so if he wants to do Erasmus later etc he can.

Erasamus is based on the location of your home university. So if he does his degree in a UK university and there is no deal allowing the UK to continue in the Erasamus programme, he won't be able to avail of it. Also, if he wanted to study in the EU, having an EU passport won't allow him to avail of EU rates. EU rates are generally based on residence, not nationality, although some universities don't charge international fees that way they do in UK and Ireland.

I'm in my 50s, when I was growing up it never crossed my mind that I didn't have the right to work or go somewhere. I am left wondering where this drive for all our young people to work outside the UK comes from. With the right qualifications and training they will be able to work overseas, you just have to apply for a work permit or visa.

I assume OP that your children are fluent in the language of the country they were hoping to go and work in?

doIreallyneedtoknow You clearly don't understand my point. I would never say that Leave voters are ignorant and I think I have a good a grasp as most people about the situation in NI.