Not in my children's name

[drivinmecrazy]

I am getting increasingly angry with this whole issue.
My children were born into a world where they were allowed to dream beyond borders, they had no deal of Empire or even the commonwealth. They were children of an harmonious block of neighbouring allies.
Yet those of us of another generation are doing our utmost to take these opportunities away from them without any good reason.
How are my children's lives going to be improved by Brexit? How are their dreams going to be enhanced by shutting our borders and closing our minds?
As an adult I'm not convinced by the economic benefits we would gain, as a parent I'm certain my children will not benefit from living on a tiny island without favourable economic trading opportunities with our nearest neighbours, or without freedom of movevent of dreams.
I'm crying inside for the things our children may not forgive us for in the future.
My own children are 13 & 18. As you might expect my elder child is desperately hoping for a PV, as are most of her friends. My 13 year old wants to know why we consider ourselves so different to the rest of the EU.
Do you ever think about what is being taken from your children?
I know this is a rather emotive post but I am just so bloody angry on my DD's behalf.
We are not only responsible for the here and now, we need to think to the future generations

I have no idea whether Farage himself wants to dismantle the NHS, but a significant number of right wing Tories would be only too glad to do so.

Sadly for the UK, the generation which remembers what it was like before we had an NHS is now passing away, so the majority of us don't know what it's like to be scared stiff of falling ill because of worry of paying Drs bills, or hospital fees. Farage won't suffer if the NHS goes, because he's wealthy, neither will May, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, but I bet a significant number of MN posters would suffer greatly.

Pere but not every Tory wants to Leave nor does every Labourite want to Remain - so other than blaming Cameron (a Remainer Tory) for calling the Ref in the first place, TM (a Remainer Tory) for negotiating the WA or Corbyn (thought to be a Leaver but who actually had teased out of him that he voted Remain) for 'fence sitting' how is this a Tory thing?

Peregrina - that will be the generation who remember Britain before the EU then. My mum trained as a nurse in the 30s pre NHS so I know a fair bit about it. I also don't recognise these right wing tory MPs who want to dismantle the NHS, exactly who and when have they said this?

Will be interesting to see what happens at the European Elections Misti. That will be a much better indication as to the general feeling about leaving or not.

Interesting for sure. But these are elections for MEPs. Farage (and indeed remain parties) might want to make it a rerun of the referendum, but ultimately it does not and cannot give a mandate for any sort of Brexit (or indeed for remaining).

The way for a government to get a mandate for its chosen form of Brexit is to have a GE with its Brexit policy as a major policy platform, or to have a confirmatory vote.

I have no idea whether Farage himself wants to dismantle the NHS,

Farage is on the record as preferring a private insurance system.

Of course his new party has no policies so it's impossible to say what his party's policy is on this issue.

From Wikipedia about the Brexit party.
{The party has no policies other than its desire for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union without a withdrawal agreement.}

How can you vote for a party with no policies? If you do, how will you know if they have failed to deliver your expectations?

You realise that an absolute refusal to sign THE Withdrawal Agreement will have very dire consequences for the UK as there will be no negotiations with the EU and the UK simply cannot afford to refuse to trade with the EU.

How can you vote for a party with no policies? If you do, how will you know if they have failed to deliver your expectations?

I did understand that this is what 1tis was saying in their earlier post that some on here appear to be taking really, really literally!

{How can you vote for a party with no policies?} - the Brexit Party has one policy - for the UK to Leave the EU. I can vote for it because it's all a bit farcical that we're even taking part in the EU elections. I might also vote for some Greens too.

{You realise that an absolute refusal to sign THE Withdrawal Agreement} is a very stupid thing to do? Well, yes, I do...not down to me that the HoC are too self-interested and even too stupid not to vote it through.

You can lead a horse to water....but you can't make them drink.

I can vote for it in the EU elections as it is a protest vote pure and simple. Their mandate or policies have nothing to do with the MEs in the EU especially as we are leaving. Who I vote for in a GE or local gov. election may well be an entirely different thing.

I genuinely don't understand how conservatives are prepared to vote for Farage's rabble of antisemites and IRA supporters.

(Does this mean we won't hear another peep about Jezza hating Jews and supporting the IRA?)

What the F- - - are you talking about Misti!!!

Misti does your genuine lack of understanding also extend to the many Labour, LibDem, Green, SNP, PC, DUP, SF voters who might also vote for Farage's Rabble?

Anyone voting for Farage is courting disaster as there is no plan.
It's like asking 4 children if they want to go out for the day, yes/no.
They vote yes but then one wants the park, another the zoo, another the beach and the fourth ice skating. You can only do one activity.
Farage has no plan and thinks that it is acceptable to run the UK without a plan. Not even a hint, to cosy up to the USA or Russia or China because there is no way the UK can be prosperous on it's own.

Le Clerc that's what DC did in 2016! We want to show that we still want to leave, end of. We want this insistent moaning on and on about how we didn't know what we voted for, half of us have died so it's different now, etc, etc. to stop We don't need to know what his plans are he won't be negotiating but maybe, just maybe TM might go and we might get a proper Brexiter in to sort it all out.

Clerc of course Farage hasn't a Plan in the EU elections, that's really quite obvious to everyone who will vote for his party in the EU Elections and probably quite obvious to the many who won't vote for his Party in the EU elections too.

I think that it's quite probable that many voters who normally wouldn't vote in EU Elections will do so this time - because they're so pissed off that they can't just get on with their own lives in or out of the EU. A lot of these voters would never vote for UKIP as it is now, and this was demonstrated by their 'kicking' in the Locals.

Those votes can be cast towards Leave or Remain - the Remain vote is split between 3 Parties, with many 'I have never voted before but want to stop the shit storm that is Brexit' voters requiring a website to advise them how they should vote.

This is because there is no Remain Party {and I am also a little cross that there isn't a Remain Party, there really should be and with all the combined knowledge of Remain Peeps why on earth they missed this in all their blah, blah is really down to them}

But there is a Brexit Party for voters to vote for, so go figure. Rather than wasting your time berating those that differ from you on some things, get your own ducks in a row.

When one reads articles like this americanise NHS one has to question whether the right wing Tories do have a commitment to the NHS.

I myself think that it does need reform; with an aging population and newer treatments neither of which were envisaged at the time it was founded, I suspect we cannot continue with the old model. But privatising it on the American model is not the only way to go. A proper reform would investigate the options thoroughly and look to other countries with well regarded systems like the Scandinavian ones, Germany or e.g New Zealand and see whether we can take some ideas from them.

I hope my children see through the futility of voting and work towards absolute detachment from the overall system that created the necessary conditions for a leave result...but what do I know, I live on a South London estate where everyone's forgotten about Brexit and worry more about being stabbed, paying the rent, buying food and not getting robbed.

Misti does your genuine lack of understanding also extend to the many Labour, LibDem, Green, SNP, PC, DUP, SF voters who might also vote for Farage's Rabble?

Yes, of course it does, but most "new" Farage voters (ie ones who did not vote for UKIP in the last EP election) will be conservatives. This is obviously the case because the overwhelming majority of Labour, Green, SF and LD supporters are remainers, and there aren't many DUP voters full stop.

Did Farage's rabble have any electoral success in NI?

What the F- - - are you talking about Misti!!!

If this refers to my comment about Farage party candidates being antisemites or IRA supporters, then here's a short list.

Brexit party members with a past history of IRA support:
Claire Fox aka Claire Foster (lead candidate for NW)
Alka Seghal Cuthbert (London)
Both ex Revolutionary Communist Party members. Fox has had the most media coverage, has had ample opportunity to retract previous IRA support, hasn't done so. One Brexit party MEP candidate resigned as a result.

Brexit party MEP candidates or directors with a history of making anti-Semitic remarks:
Michael McGough (director - resigned as a party official but still listed by companies house)
Nigel Farage (party leader)

The original party leader, Catherine Blaiklock, had to stand down for Islamophobic posts on social media but is also still a director.

Leaving is a decision, not a plan.
When you leave your house you check the weather to see if you need a coat. You have presumably decided where you are going, and taken your purse and car keys/bus pass and sandwiches if applicable.
It is not unreasonable for the so called leaders of the country to have mentioned this to the electorate and actually work out the plan and explain it.
My personal ducks are pretty much in a row, but unlike the unthinking 'Leave' camp I also have concerns for the rest of my family and many friends.

1tisILeClerc
Leaving is a decision, not a plan*

Both the EU Commission and the UK Government have officially declared that they are ready for a no-deal scenario.

Mistigri

According to YouGov - 32% of people who voted for the LibDems in 2015 also voted to Leave the EU in 2016.

Just googled Claire Fox and Catherine Blaiklock;

Jeremy Corbyn was quite happy to give a keynote speech at the Fabian Society 2 years ago - immediately followed by a panel consisting of Claire Fox, Owen Jones, Jonathan Bartley and Stella Creasy (Labour MP).

Catherine Blaiklock’s first husband is a Nepali Sherpa whom she met at Everest base-camp in 1997 (2 kids together) - she is still the trustee of a healthcare charity with her ex in Nepal - her second husband is a British Jamaican...

Catherine Blaiklock resigned as a director of the Brexit Party on 3rd May - I just checked Companies House - the Guardian article was published 5th May. No need to mention her again...

To be perfectly honest - the gap between mainstream Conservative voters and Jeremy Corbyn/John McDonnell's vision - is so vast that voting for the Brexit Party on one occasion in the EU elections seems a very easy pill to swallow.

Hopefully, UK MEPs will only take their seats for a few weeks/months in any case.

Peregrina - The article you referred to quite clearly states that the consultation carried out had absolutely nothing to do with the funding sources of the NHS or changing the funding model of how it might be funded in the future. The consultation was looking at ways to better join up care packages in the community and NHS sourced care which has to be a good thing. - It was 2 years ago.

Also as I said previously the New Brexit party did not have any candidates in the recent local elections. It's sole purpose at the moment is to fight the EU elections to show that we still want to leave.

I had been talking I recall about wealthy Tories wanting to smash the NHS. Of course they are going to dress it up as a funding reform - even they are not yet quite so dumb to say that in plain English.
I am utterly sick and tired of their 'reforms' and the weasel words they use to 'explain'them. Local physio services part privatised and moved - 'we are bringing them closer', they babble. Oh yes, so my MIL now has to travel 10 miles for a physio appointment, not one.

The new Brexit party was too slow getting organised to fight the local elections, whatever big mouth Fascist Farage says. Whatever else he is, it isn't stupid and he could see how UKIP had started to fail in local elections right after the Referendum.