Westminstenders: Compromise is a difficult word

[RedToothBrush]

Today the HoC had a water leak. It closed the house for the day. This isn't without consequence; any hope for the opportunity of Indicative Votes on Monday had cold water poured on it.

Meanwhile talks between talks between May and Corbyn were about as productive as you'd imagine. But apparently they had nice tea and biscuits.

The Cooper Bill, the last minute lock on May getting a extension to prevent no deal, has been in the Lords today. I say it's been in the Lords but Tories have filibuster Ed on procedure for over 6 hours to prevent the chance of it passing the house. Tory whips are timetabled until 6am but the opposition benches have vowed to go to 7.30am. So far the votes to ruin the procedure have failed comfortably so the opposition have the number. Its just a question of time.

The trouble is with the Lords not sitting tomorrow that means the bill won't get passed until Monday and there are fears it won't get royal assent until Tuesday.

The bill doesn't prevent accidental no deal but it would be a barrier to May.

It therefore looks like May's gambit with the EU to get an extension is to say her plan is ongoing talks with Labour for a cross party solution. It won't wash.

No deal looks more and more likely.

It is true to say that the care sector is predominantly zero hour contracts. This means if you are a carer you constantly worry about whether you get any work and if they call you IP with barely no notice and you cannot do it they will ( and do) offer you no more work. It also allows them to get around how many hours you can do. I've known carers ( and have done myself) upwards of 70 hours a week in case refusing more work leads to no work. Also we never got paid for travel between jobs and petrol ( we had to wait a year to get anything back from taxman which involved keeping receipts, mileage and reg numbers if you changed cars and only getting something back like 8 pence a mile after a certain amount)meant you were earning less than £3 an hour. Then of course there's tax and insurance, no sick pay and minimal holiday pay which was another scam because 9/10 you couldn't get the holiday you wanted so ended up not having one and then having to try and get holiday allowance in by end if financial year or lose all your accrued holiday.
People really don't know the half if it really. And if you joined a union they couldn't sack you they just didn't give u any work which meant you would have to try and find another agency. This us what privatisation does. The clients aren't people just money making machines and the workers are dirt under their feet.

Absolutely right leClerc

Haha sorry red you did but I'm going to class you as the exception because not everyone who voted is The Redtoothbrush.

I too have noticed leavers going very quiet. One friend who generally posts frequently on Facebook on leaverish themes, actually left Facebook last week.

So even if we get a long extension, there will still be a fight against a Hard Brexit.

An extension "for a year longer if necessary" would be better than Theresa May's deal says Tory Brexiteer @bernardjenkin. "The terms of the withdrawal agreement are so disadvantageous and so crushing, a humiliating defeat"

twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1114130929243643905

Happy birthday prettybird I hope you have a lovely day.

I have no idea what these bars are of which you all talk, but then I have never been to Scotland .

I did once, in another life (or so it feels), have lunch at the Waterside Inn.

I can offer you the watering hole if you'd rather a trip to Cornwall. Not at all posh, but literally on the beach.

howabout said:
your argument doesn't work because the Polish consumers are not as well heeled as the British ones

LeClerc
That is a disgusting thing to be saying and should be retracted

LeClerc, I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m still trying to work out what howabout means. Do they realise that Poland is very far from a 3rd world country? That people who come here to work include people like my neighbour (financial advisor) and her husband (architect) who do those jobs both on Poland and the uk? Poland is not full of fruit pickers and builders

From RTB's piece:
{On balance the EU offer us security and stability. Boring as hell but undervalued.}

And this undervaluing is about to hit home very soon.

The EU as an institution is necessarily large and cumbersome. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. It is trying to foster peace and harmony as much as is possible across the whole of Europe, an mammoth task when you have 'pockets' within each sovereign country where far right and far left idealism are strong. Creating a framework where harmony is to be fostered rather than being imposed (which is of course impossible) will always mean that the EP has to be on it's guard. Not trying is to admit defeat, which would be immensely damaging for everyone.

Utterly
I deliberately chose Poland as my alternate country

• as its where the lovely Donald Tusk is from
• as both my kids LOVED it when they visited
• as it does not have a climate to grow winter lettuce

but lets be honest,
the Spanish growers will sell to where they KNOW the stuff will arrive in good condition
sitting for days waiting to cross the Channel will wreck the quality of the stock
so they will find other customers

Oh Sos I’m sorry that you had to face that racism at work. It’s honestly disgusting that people think it’s ok to say these things out loud. But when mainstream media and politicians are saying it it gets so legitimised that it becomes commonplace. It’s depressing. They have a lot to answer for.

Zero hours contracts are honestly horrible as well. Great for the government to argue that they have more people on employment, but not so good for actually surviving. I was working full time on a zero hours contract. They then decided they only needed me part time, leading to a massive drop in my family’s income. Then 3 months later they decided they couldn’t afford to employ me at all. They told me on the Friday. My contract ended that day and i was out of a job on the spot. Never again.

Hazard, being fair, I agree I don't think most people did know what they were voting for. I think there was a study that showed on 7% of people voted based on reasons relating to the EU.

I don't think it's a bad thing to admit that you didn't fully appreciate what the vote was about. I think Remainers on the whole were more of the mindset that they did, but I don't think that's necessarily true - even in my own case.

I think perhaps my reasons were not particularly based on the EU but on the fragility and instability of British politics in 2016. (that particular post was 2 hours before the news of Jo Cox came through).

The EU referedum could only ever be run at a time when there was a massive divide split so closely down the middle of society. If it hadn't there would have been a point in running it.

It was always precisely why Cameron was unprepared to resolve matters relating to the EU on his own - because of the fractures in his own party.

It's much easier to see with the benefit of hindsight.

Those divisions were always going to create a crisis at some stage. What that crisis was going to be was the only thing under debate. The rise of the far right and far left were always going to happen in that context. Trump's election is attributed to the success of Brexit, but being honest, those divisions run very deep and it's entirely possible - indeed probable - that it would have happened anyway.

In some ways Brexit sort of 'contains' the debate over the culture war in this country. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It could have manifested itself in a GE in some way.

Whilst there is a certain amount of blame placed on Cameron about it all (which I share in many regards), we pretty much all except that Brexit was the product of a fracture in British society which has its roots in poor governance and management. Whether we are Leavers or remainers.

And that's why public confidence and trust in politicians is so low.

Arguably all Brexit has done is speed up when that's occurred.

@rosapalmer sorry, didn't mean to slight Galway, I genuinely love going there, I was very very tired last night and probably didn't make myself very clear! DH is 44, he's left now for 15 years, goes back regularly, we do love it there, I agree with your description, but I think for him, he saw people there who had so much potential but just got comfortable in the quite unusual little pocket of Galway, never left and never did anything out of Ireland. We've got lots of friends like it, they occasionally come to see us and I do see them having a wonderful life in galway, which is very creative, full of arty types etc, but they just have kind of stagnated....
It might be just his friends though! He does feel like it about Ireland in general though, not specifically Galway as much I think, just that he gets the fear when we go back and his mum tries to persuade him to bring us all there to live. I would love it in some ways, but I can see his point. Anyway, what I meant is, he feels like that.. And yet, when he goes to Lincolnshire, he can see just how lucky he is in comparison!

The two places where you are most aware of the fragility of politics are Scotland and NI. (and notably not Wales).

Is anyone able to guess what will happen next week?

Isn't it honest though to say no one knew what they were voting for in 2016?

The vast majority of voters in 2016 were extremely underinformed about the EU, and about how difficult Brexit was likely to prove - this was true of both remainers and leavers.

Speaking as a remainer who is reasonably educated about both the EU and trade (I'm an economist doing research into commodity markets and I live in the EU), prior to 2016 I was honestly pretty ignorant about a lot of the EU trade and legal stuff we now discuss on here as if it's common knowledge. What's more I have also learnt a lot about how UK institutions function.

It isn't however true that "no one knew what they were voting for", since people voting remain were voting explicitly for the status quo, and it is difficult to argue that people did not know what the status quo was in 2016 - even if they were not necessarily minutely informed about the intricacies of how the EU functions.

Very thoughtful red and very much along the lines of convos we've had at our house.

I'm genuinely (not envy) of TMs game playing. As far as I can see the PM and the cabinet spent 7 hours plotting the latest scam rather than actually trying to find another way or plan B.
Calling a meeting with JC was just to get extension from EU plus make Cooper bill irrelevant. Also as we can now assume these talks have broken down TM gets another triple whammy in the blame game by blaming labour and the EU ( if they don't give an extension) and Parliament if they don't vote for her deal next week.
All this, I repeat ALL THIS to save the Tory party and fingers up to the Country fgs!

but they just have kind of stagnated
I think you're digging a hole... Many people are happy "stagnating"!

@TalkinPaece I was literally considering another trip to Poland yesterday! I'm missing having something to look forward to this year and once the extension has been denied/confirmed I will book something. We've been to Slupsk (I can't be bothered to find accents in case anyone hasn't already noticed!) which we loved. Everyone was friendly and we loved the food. It did help that my ex was Polish and could translate but I would love to go back and explore; where would you recommend?

Is anyone able to guess what will happen next week?

Macron and others will hold out for UK compromises/commitments/something resembling a plan.

Don't agree with people who say he's posturing. That's not how he does politics. (Incidentally some of the posts about Macron/ the French are borderline racist and certainly pretty distasteful especially coming from remainers).

Happy Birthday, prettybird ! I hope you have a lovely day and a wonderful meal out. Wherever you are going (by the way, I'd always recommend The Gannet as a good place to go for a birthday treat).
If there are any ceilidihs, meet-ups or any sheenanigans in Byres Road or anywhere nearby, give me a shout, I will join you happily.

Are you coming next month to All Under One Banner march? I'll be there, and I think I will have a red toothbrush in shirt my pocket just in case

Mistigri
I must admit that the supply chain stuff was one of my strongest reasons for voting Remain.
Having worked in Dover Customs Clearance it was PAINFULLY obvious to me that the EU would not blink on the Single Market
and thus that the UK would mess up.

I just did not realise how little the MPs knew

There is so much angst around the world.

I don't know too much about politics in France but from what I can see Macron is much more capable than our current leadership.

Not saying that where I live is quiet, but the 'hot news' of the last month or so is that the local 'beau' has a new girlfriend.
Said 'beau' must be several years over 80.
Other news, the grass has grown a bit!

I have no idea what the Rogano is and I've only ever had beer in the Chip. So yeah, as far as I'm concerned it's a pub.

Me too. And I've lived in the West End for 15 years.
When most people refer to the Chip, they're talking about the pub and not the restaurant part. It's a nice place for a drink and it has a nice bar menu but it's not particularly fancy or swanky. Same clientele as you'd get in any West End pub tbh.

(apols for pub related derail)