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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
GroovieGazelloo · 29/03/2019 20:01

Merci Rouge .

TatianaLarina · 29/03/2019 20:02

PMK Gin

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 29/03/2019 20:02

Ta red

golondrina · 29/03/2019 20:02

So, it seems to be shifting towards either No Deal or revoke?

golondrina · 29/03/2019 20:03

Thank you so much for these threads, it's how I sort of understand some of what's going on.

Bluelonerose · 29/03/2019 20:05

Pmk while trying to make sense of the whole disaster

lonelyplanetmum · 29/03/2019 20:05

grazie rosso

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 29/03/2019 20:06

Thanks for the new thread. I’ve been watching the news through my fingers today and it’s just ever more farcical. I was just watching the end of the channel 4 news covering the brexit march. Riot police and police dogs already Sad

A highlight was a wild eyed Jon Snow stating he’d never seen so many white people in one place before. He did not look impressed.

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 20:07

TEGAN DELETE THIS FFS!!!!!!!!!!!
pmk

AwdBovril · 29/03/2019 20:07

Thanks for the threads. I get the vast majority of my politics information from or via MN these days. Much appreciated. Flowers

JadziaSnax · 29/03/2019 20:07

Pmk

BercowsSilkTie · 29/03/2019 20:07

Thanks Red. Glad your ds is better. Mine is still on the hot side but almost back to his normal self.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/03/2019 20:08

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Mopthefloor · 29/03/2019 20:08

PMK. I’m so lost now.

AutumnNymph · 29/03/2019 20:09

Shamelessly PMK - Thanks @Red

MayhemandMadness01 · 29/03/2019 20:09

Pmk

bellinisurge · 29/03/2019 20:09

Phew! Magnificent summary @RedToothBrush .

QueenMabby · 29/03/2019 20:10

Fabulous précis of a complicated situation Red. You simplify without dumbing down and are succinct whilst still getting all the points across. I really appreciate the amount of work you must be putting into all this. Thank you.

QueenMabby · 29/03/2019 20:10

That was my PMK btw...

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 20:12

Thanks, red 💐

To be fair to May (occasionally !) she got the green light from the EU before her MV2.5
They only care about the WA, not whatever PD, if any, MPs decide
If there is a Brexit, they'll insist on this WA.

Jon Stone@joncstone

EU Commission spokesperson confirmed withdrawal agreement is "both necessary and sufficient" for an orderly withdrawal.
PD not needed
.......

Fabian Zuleeg@FabianZuleeg (European Research Centre, Brussels)

As noted before, EU27 no longer worried about PD, focus is on getting WA over the line.

In part, because of no trust in ability of UK political system to commit to anything longer term.

This also applies to granting any long extension

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 29/03/2019 20:14

Terrific summation. Makes things clearer for me. DUP is the intriguing twist of the day.

MissMalice · 29/03/2019 20:14

PMK. Can’t decide whether to eat my stockpile or add to it!

GeistohneGrenzen · 29/03/2019 20:15

What golondrina said. With bigly^ thanks Flowers

NoWordForFluffy · 29/03/2019 20:15

Thanks, Red.

PMK.

I wouldn't want to put a bet on any outcome right now; it's a knife edge right now!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/03/2019 20:16

pmk.

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