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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
AdaHopper · 29/03/2019 20:16

Fabulous précis of a complicated situation Red. You simplify without dumbing down and are succinct whilst still getting all the points across. I really appreciate the amount of work you must be putting into all this. Thank you.

I agree! Red, you should put ´mumsnet Brexit reporter' on your CV. And ask mumsnet to pay you

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 29/03/2019 20:16

@profundo_basso
Just got back from Parliament Square after being there about 20 minutes. It was horrible, a chanting football crowd, with an air of drunken menace, mostly unsmiling, tattooed men, Tommy Robinson ranting about Muslims. I didn’t belong there. At this precise moment I’d vote Remain.

^^ Sounds horrific!

The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 20:17

These threads are amazing. Thank you all for keeping me informed and educated.
Politics is much more fascinating than people give it credit for. The lack of interest most folk have is scary I think.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 20:18

Former ECJ judge: a long Article 50 extension would be disastrous

Interesting insight into how some in the EU are thinking
It only takes one country to veto .....

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/former-ecj-judge-a-long-article-50-extension-would-be-disastrous

Members of parliament are paid to take responsibility.
Those in London should stop behaving like spoiled children and make an adult choice.

The best way for the EU to convince them is to warn clearly that without a swift agreement and legislation allowing an exit from the crisis, the cliff edge will become very real.

No deal should be prevented if possible, but not at any price.

For the EU, better a chaotic ending than endless chaos.

Monst3ra · 29/03/2019 20:19

Pmk

Flowerplower · 29/03/2019 20:20

Thank you Red, I appreciate what you're doing a great deal and also appreciate all the highly informed regular posters on this thread. Without you I'd stand no chance of understanding what's going on.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 20:20

Fiddle There were some reasonably sane Leavers at that rally / march

Seeing their thug allies up close and personal may have given them a sharp reality check

wheresmymojo · 29/03/2019 20:20

PMK

MayhemandMadness01 · 29/03/2019 20:21

Does anyone know how things are in London tonight, saw posts on Twitter that Police were donning riot gear

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 20:21

Westministenders Abbreviations:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation?msgid=84503730

OutwithMyRemit · 29/03/2019 20:29

PMK. Love your summations, Red.

Apileofballyhoo · 29/03/2019 20:32

I emailed Sir Oliver and got an instant reply from his iPhone too.

Also emailed Nigel Dodds in appreciation of his comments yesterday re remain and soft Brexit. Can't hurt. Wonder if I'll get a reply. If the DUP start saying things about peace and prosperity I'll know if he read it...

WhatWouldScoobyDoo · 29/03/2019 20:32

PMK. Thanks Red, happy to hear your DS is feeling better!

Apileofballyhoo · 29/03/2019 20:32

DH saw some stuff on Twitter about trouble at the railings of Downing St.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 20:34

Re Parliament Square atm. This from an FT journalist in the last 30min

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
Recap on a day of pro-Brexit protests in Westminster. All peaceful and non-menacing. But there are certainly some grumpy Leave folks out.
Thread of tweets from earlier today

So he's reporting a grumpy mood but reasonably good humoured at least atm. Which we can only hope continues. But it's still only 8.30pm and they will go on til midnight at least I'd guess.

OP posts:
RuffleCrow · 29/03/2019 20:35

Worst Thread Title Ever.

SingaSong12 · 29/03/2019 20:36

PMK thanks

Grinchly · 29/03/2019 20:38

Thank you Red. You are a shining beacon of information and analysis in these very dark and confusing times.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 20:38

Worst Thread Title Ever.
Far enough. This is my fifth thread since Monday. Inspiration is running thin. Can't win them all!

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 29/03/2019 20:39

I'm sure I've seen worse titles! 😂

Easilyflattered · 29/03/2019 20:39

Pmk, thank you Red toothbrush lady!

Flowerplower · 29/03/2019 20:40

I quite like the title!

IrenetheQuaint · 29/03/2019 20:41

Good summary, Red.

I am shattered after a long week at work plus all the Brexit drama and have taken to my bed Blush

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/03/2019 20:41

You are doing brilliantly Red.

tobee · 29/03/2019 20:42

Danke rote Zahnburste Grin

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