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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
pointythings · 29/03/2019 20:42

Great contribution to the debate there, Ruffle Hmm.

I met a reasonable Leaver today. Well, her reason for voting Leave was her fear of a European Army, so not entirely reasonable. But she doesn't believe in unicorns and is a very decent person. We tend to agree to disagree at work - we have two Leavers there.

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 20:43

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/brexit-protest-two-arrests-after-thousands-of-leave-supporters-descend-on-westminster-as-one-man-a4104911.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Brexit supporters face off with police at Downing Street and man arrested on suspicion of assaulting officer after thousands descend on London

Published 15 mins ago.

Apparently Downing Street seems to be the focus of less good humoured protest.

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borntobequiet · 29/03/2019 20:43

Thanks Red, once again.

FiddleFaddleDingDong · 29/03/2019 20:44

I like the thread title!

Youcantscaremeihavechildren · 29/03/2019 20:48

PMK.. I got very angry earlier when my leave voting colleague came in wearing his union Jack tie... He's a teacher. He then lectured one of our 6th form gov pol kids about brexit, of course all of it his views, for an hour. Poor kid was so fed up. Plus it didn't have the desired effect, she's more pro remain than ever. What it did reveal is that there's lots of misconceptions about this whole process. I could explain a few things, thanks to you, red.
I fo need to step away from the brexit, just for a bit, it's really stressing me out! Also really busy period at school, exams etc.. Our site staff have started stockpiling bog toll and paper... I've got a full freezer but think I need to up my stash.. I live in Kent, the M20 contraflow, operation brick, is NOT going well...4 accidents in the first week, I live right next to it and my town is at a standstill if there is an accident.

www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/operation-brock-review-highways-england-2697804

LadyGregorysToothbrush · 29/03/2019 20:48

Thank you Red

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 20:50

Worst Thread Title Ever.

Comic book guy has joined the threads!

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
Cumberlover76 · 29/03/2019 20:52

Not sure if the link will work, but someone mentioned on the previous thread about a song played at the March last week and I wanted to share this. One of my fave tunes and just perfect for how I feel. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157002284896113&id=687161112&sfnsn=mo

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 20:58

Metropolitan police @metpoliceuk
^As of 21:00hrs five arrests have been made at the demonstrations in central #London today: x2 for assault, x1 drunk & disorderly, x1 for assaulting a
police officer & x1 male arrested after being identified as wanted for an
offence in Herts. All are in custody.^

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prettybird · 29/03/2019 21:00

Chilled out regal cat (RIP) doing what she loved the most: relaxing in the sun with us Smile

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
Flowerplower · 29/03/2019 21:02

Don't worry everyone, as an example of the great brains at work to sort out this else, one minister thinks he knows how to heal the divisions in the UK after Brexit.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/102858/excl-new-royal-yacht-britannia-would-%E2%80%98unite%E2%80%99-country

A new Royal Yacht Britannia would act as a boon to the UK’s international trade and “unite” the country following the bitter divisions of the Brexit debate, a government minister has said.

In an interview with The House magazine, Jake Berry argued the vessel would “bring our country back together” and help drive the UK’s overseas trade policy outside the European Union.

HmmConfusedAngry

bellinisurge · 29/03/2019 21:03

What a beaut @prettybird . She knew how to do it. And still working her magic.

BoreOfWhabylon · 29/03/2019 21:05

Pmk

BelfastBloke · 29/03/2019 21:06

Not surprising that the nastier protests are focussed on Downing Street, given that the Tommy Robinson event was centred on the Cenotaph, just outside.

The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 21:08

A yacht!!
That'll do it. Something to get behind!
Hmm

Motheroffourdragons · 29/03/2019 21:09

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

BelfastBloke · 29/03/2019 21:10

Does anyone know why newspapers often put both of Tommy Robinson's names? Eg "Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, the far-right activist also known as Tommy Robinson"

As far as I know they don't usually do this with people who use an alias. (Dr Dre, Lady Gaga, Frank Skinner etc)

ElenadeClermont · 29/03/2019 21:11

Probably because he is a felon. You do not want get a mortgage from him.

Loletta · 29/03/2019 21:13

MV3 next week. Give me strength

No10 adamant the PM's deal is not dead, yet. PM will try to bring it back a 4th time next week - probably in a run off with Indicative Vote winner. So; MPs' final choice will be May's deal v Customs Union?

Tom Newton Dunn

TheElementsSong · 29/03/2019 21:14

PMK with ElementCat!

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
Loletta · 29/03/2019 21:16

Isn't it infuriating to read that TM's motion today had more votes than any option voted on on Monday? How unfair is that comparison? No whips? No gun to MPs' heads? First attempt? I could keep going.

borntobequiet · 29/03/2019 21:16

Probably because Dr Dre, Lady Gaga and Frank Skinner don’t have criminal records, or if they do (?), they’re not particularly relevant or important in these troubled times.
HTH.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson_(activist)

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 21:16

Newspapers incoming.

First up Mail

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
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RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 21:17

Indy

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
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The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 21:17

May the Fourth be with you! ( I thought of this first)

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