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Brexit

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina

953 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/03/2019 19:58

Todays News Round Up (so far):

  1. MV2.5 failed by 58 votes.
  2. Labour Rebels were not tempted by May's promises of consultation with parliament over the next phase. This is because this is not a binding promise and with a possible change of leader this is even more lacking in substance
  3. More ERG than expected switched to supporting the WA. This included leadership hopefuls Johnson and Raab. But there were still 28 hold outs plus 6 Tory Remain Rebels.
  4. Macron said that the EU would be the ones to decide the timetable for no deal if we failed to pass the WA or ask for an extension by 12th April. Thus 12th April is NOT necessarily the cliff edge we fear, though it still is no deal. (Its just a possible time delay). As far as a lengthy extension goes he would want not just EP election participation but also more in the way of a concrete way forward than we currently have though.
  5. The EUCO are meeting on the April 10th. Thus we have until then to work something out. Thats quite the ask.
  6. A series of mini deals in the event of No Deal is something the EU are firmly ruling out. And yet the myth that this will happen is still out there.
  7. No Deal would probably mean the Backstop being in effect anyway in practice, simply because its the only way to stop a hard border.
  8. The penny has dropped with the DUP over this, and they have finally abandoned the idea of a hard brexit and possibly brexit all together if it threatens NI position in the union. They would rather remain. Thus the GFA problem is at least acknowledged.
  9. The DUP did something curious in the indicative votes. They signalled where there was room for them to move, in how they voted - they revealed what they were opposed to and what they might be talked into with their abstaining
  10. There seems to be moves elsewhere to a softer brexit with more signatories to Common Market 2.0 gaining support and more vocal support for the Customs Union.
  11. Donald Tusk signalled that the EU could change the PD to a custom union relatively easily.
  12. May had a meeting earlier with ministers who are urging her to go for No Deal now
  13. May said cryptically after the vote in the commons that the process was almost beyond what the house could provide. What she meant by this isn't obvious.
  14. The problem is that any deal requires the WA to pass... the WA merely is the divorce arrangement and not the economic and political alignment aftewards. All soft Brexits require the WA.

The DUP will never support the backstop.
And Labour although they say they accept the WA will never support a blind Brexit and distrust the Tories fearing they will backtrack on any PD.
The only way to square this circle is to have a legally binding PD which looks a lot like the backstop with NI and the rUK in it.
Which the ERG would never buy into.
And the EU might not allow.

And to get an extension we'd need to pass legislation for EP elections - and its difficult to work out where May would get a majority in the HoC from to facilitate that without the government collasping in the attempt.

Thus as we move forward the stakes get higher, and without any progress on a deal the chances of both No Deal and Revoke get higher. And I don't fancy testing May's resolve to revoke - especially since that might require parliamentary approval too. Is there a majority to revoke if the alternative really is No Deal?

Parliament needs to move FAST to avoid both. Parliament isn't good at moving fast.

I also note that the DUP's political survival might well rest now with remaining. Apparently like the Conservatives, the uncertainity of Brexit has lead to a loss of confidence in the party amongst business leaders, which has led to a drop in donations. This is coupled with May's threat that No Deal would result in Direct Rule. The likes of Arlene are on the Stormont Pay Role, so this would starve them of money there. And this is all without the prospect of polling on an all Ireland referendum. The ERG hanging them out to dry, only serves to make it or the more likely.

Surely an election beckons one way or another, later this year? This is unsustainable for the DUP. And for May who has today, refused to rule one out...

Prediction: We are going to get through a lot of threads and have late nights between the 9th and 12th.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
Lonelycrab · 29/03/2019 21:35

Carpet shark Milly. She’ll have your ankles.....

Huge thanks Red, amazing first post

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 21:36

Axel Dittmann@GermanyonBrexit (German Foreign Office)

We deeply regret the decision of the HoC.

Only 14 days left to avoid risk of no deal.

However, we have prepared for all scenarios

www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/aussenpolitik/europa/Brexit/brexitvorbereitungen-bundesregierung/2153016

ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/brexit-preparedness_en

borntobequiet · 29/03/2019 21:36

Agree 1) press is a disgrace 2) NW pawsage cat is coolest.

The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 21:37

Yep, Theresa is staying on as the deal did t go thorough.
It's a topsy Turvy world.

TatianaLarina · 29/03/2019 21:37

That’s what I heard...

MayhemandMadness01 · 29/03/2019 21:37

Breaking news, Larry is the new PM.

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
67chevvyimpala · 29/03/2019 21:37

Pmk

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 21:37

That's the punishment for the HoC not voting as she wanted Wink

DGRossetti · 29/03/2019 21:38

Anyone who knows of "Fortean Times" might be interested to know this months edition has a few pictures from an island (in Japan) where cats outnumber humans ...

www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/03/a-visit-to-aoshima-a-cat-island-in-japan/386647/

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 29/03/2019 21:38

TEGAN!!!!!!

PMK

Red Thank you for such a great summary. I’d be totally lost in this mess without you and so many other posters.

So glad your DS is getting better. Hope the same for your DC Bercows

Has anyone seen any estimates re size of the march yet?

Deadsouls · 29/03/2019 21:40

It doesn't make sense!!! Normally people resign if they lose. I guess this is now what passes for logic...Confused

The80sweregreat · 29/03/2019 21:43

Dead, this isn't normal for parliament.
Brexit has ripped up all the rule books.

HepzibahHumbug · 29/03/2019 21:45

Thanks Red for this amazing thread Flowers
At the march last weekend my daughter asked me to buy her a union jack to wave. I had to gently explain that it would send the wrong message at a pro EU rally. She had tears in her eyes as she gradually understood that our country's flag meant something she didn't believe in. I told her that over time we would rehabilitate it to mean: inclusion; entrepreneurialism; human rights; open mindedness; curiosity and scientific achievement to help solve global warming, etc
I can't believe I had to advise her not to fly our flag at a rally we attended to support our beautiful country.
But I look at pics of the Brexit rally today and know that I was right Sad

Lisette1940 · 29/03/2019 21:47

Thanks Red. Love the cat pictures although never had the privilege of being owned by one myself!

TheElementsSong · 29/03/2019 21:50

I would wave a union flag together with an EU flag. For me, that's the point. The EU are not "them" - they're "us." We shouldn't let the knuckle-draggers take our flag from us.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 21:52

#ReclaimOurflag

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 21:53

(having said that, the day after the ref, I binned my Union Jack mouse, cap & bike flag. All replaced by EU ones)

Icantreachthepretzels · 29/03/2019 21:54

There were plenty of union jack's on the march. I don't think we should abandon it just because some minority groups are misusing it, with the hope of reclaiming it later. It is our flag.

I think part of England's problem has been that - not being a naturally flag waving bunch - the St.George cross was just lying around for skinheads and racists to pick up and use. So now it has been twisted into meaning something it shouldn't and there is judgement aimed at anyone waving one. It leaves no place for people, who want to be proud of their country, to show that symbolically in a positive way and as led to a feeling of resentment - which has partly fed the brexit vote.
We should fight to keep our symbols our own - they are much harder to reclaim once lost.

ContinuityError · 29/03/2019 21:55

Probably because Dr Dre, Lady Gaga and Frank Skinner don’t have criminal records

I think Three Lions might count as a criminal record ...

And PMK with another (in her slimmer days) carpet shark.

Westministenders: The DisUnited Kingdom of Remaina
TiddleTaddleTat · 29/03/2019 21:55

Pmk

MarshaBradyo · 29/03/2019 21:56

Pmk. Thanks Red. These threads have been invaluable

nuttynutjob · 29/03/2019 21:58

PMK

Sadly, I don't think revoke will happen nobody in the Parliament is leading it.

So it's either WA or No deal. I predict WA then general election.

Thanks to all contributors.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 21:59

Bruno Waterfieldd@BrunoBrussels*

So this time next Thurs/Fri we could seeing MV4

This time with the political declaration attached - a new one, can be done in 48 hrs, more explicitly committed to customs union (it's almost there already)

BigChocFrenzy · 29/03/2019 22:00

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/BrunoBrussels" target="_blank">Bruno Waterfieldd<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/BrunoBrussels" target="_blank">@BrunoBrussels
So
Sherpas and Tusk are doing the extension
Coreper and European Commission doing no deal planning

That's why there is a difference in tone/nuance

NoWordForFluffy · 29/03/2019 22:01

I think Three Lions might count as a criminal record

Snort! Grin

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