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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
frumpety · 16/03/2019 20:33

Feel like turning up to the Aldfield to Wetherby segment of the march, pretending that I thought that I was marching down to the Peoples vote march in London Wink

Frankiestein402 · 16/03/2019 20:37

Getting hit for extra ferry money is surely an example of UK gov inability to negotiate a contract that included potential delays - but then of course we knew their negotiating skills were lacking.

mathanxiety · 16/03/2019 20:38

The Bosnian war definitely is a fading memory and yet the legacy of it us still huge

There is far more to the Balkans situation than just recent events.

The legacy of the Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the Balkans (and geo-political factors related to the relationship between Austria-Hungary and Imperial Russia) and the resulting complex relations between religions and political allegiances of east and west are the foundation of all of this.

It is a big mistake to forget that the largely Muslim Bosnians and RC Croats allied with the Nazis during WW2, and that the Orthodox Serbians got the very thin end of the Nazi wedge as a result. The Serbs have not really forgotten any of that. To a large extent the bloodletting of the Balkan civil wars was a resumption of hostilities that went underground at the end of WW2.

While those responsible for atrocities must face international justice and everlasting opprobrium, and extremism must be extinguished, it is a huge mistake for the west to demonise Serbia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union
Its candidacy for EU membership continues to proceed, and rightly.

Peregrina · 16/03/2019 20:47

Two questions:

How many of the marchers arrived in Hartlepool?
How good is Peston at predictions, so has he called it right before?

colouringinpro · 16/03/2019 20:47

Red come!

Is there a mumsnet meet-up? I'm having to come on my own this time.

DGRossetti · 16/03/2019 20:50

The Gammonball Run

PMSL Grin

DGRossetti · 16/03/2019 20:53

twitter.com/i/status/1106802515943800832

SleightOfMind · 16/03/2019 20:58

Well, if Westministenders are marching I might have a rethink.
I’m basically an Erger to your DUP Grin

Quintella · 16/03/2019 20:58

I love that little clip. Especially where he tries to get the whole set of dominoes back on their feet by lifting one little part of it! Grin

It needs the Benny Hill theme to be truly accurate though.

Quintella · 16/03/2019 20:59

Next week's New Yorker cover

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
mathanxiety · 16/03/2019 21:00

The funniest thing is, Americans have a visceral pathological (read their constitution) hatred of "tyrants" - yet seem to admire people men who are tyrannical.
DGR

Very sadly, the version of American history that is taught to impressionable elementary schoolchildren is 'The March of Progress' aka 'It's All Right In The End'. It begins with the Bill of Rights and ends up with the Civil Rights Act. Everything since then has been the gilding of the lily. Mixed in with this is a large dose of American exceptionalism - things always work themselves out in America because American hearts are in the right place when it comes to democracy and individual freedom, and America has the right to interfere in affairs everywhere else thanks to its divinely ordained mission which is expressed in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and many mission statements on foreign policy over the centuries, and especially the last hundred years.

The 'tyrant' is therefore forever fixed in the national imagination as a rich, hopelessly old-fashioned foreigner who was on the wrong side of history, wearing an ermine cloak, with a powdered wig and a crown on his head.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/03/2019 21:04

You know you want to Red Grin www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3510056-Put-it-to-the-People-March-23rd-March

Following the March to Leave tragedy has really cheered me up tonight. Grin

OhYouBadBadKitten · 16/03/2019 21:14

New thread needed!

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 21:35

My eldest said " where is this happening? Why aren't people getting together and going there to do something about it?" I told her Westminster, in London and people have organised a march. She wanted us to go bless her.

QueenOfThorns · 16/03/2019 21:39

SparklySneakers let’s hire a minibus! (And I might forgive you for what you said about my place of residence on the other thread Grin)

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 22:02

@QueenOfThorns London scares the shit out of me and I won't go. Too risky. I'll be there in spirit though. The Heatons have particular bad feeling and memories for me and makes me anxious. Norris mainly. Some lovely houses over in the Heatons though. I'm sorry if I offended you Thanks

mathanxiety · 16/03/2019 22:06

Emilyontmoor Fri 15-Mar-19 12:40:19

MTGgirl With all due respect your last post is racist nonsense. Unless he is some sort of sleeper agent or playing some sort of clever reverse psychology there is absolutely no evidence that Evgeny Lebedev is an agent of Russia or malevolent media influence, if anything the contrary. Self evidently from their content and differing stances he exerts little editorial control over his media interests which include the Standard and Independent (which he saved from collapse at the eleventh hour), both of which editorially are against Brexit, and far from right wing.

Excellent post. Agree 100%.

Let's not ignore forget the impact of Fox News and its founder (who is not a Russian).

Quintella · 16/03/2019 22:22

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/16/attorney-general-apologises-failing-declare-thousands-pounds/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

'Attorney General apologises for failing to declare thousands of pounds in rent'

The Telegraph clearly a bit cross with Cox

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/03/2019 22:47

I think Leeds for Europe are planning on turning up in Wetherby on Tuesday. I'm not sure what time though - I have a feeling it's the evening and they plan to heckle outside Farage's hotel. But I might just be making that up.

Sostenueto · 16/03/2019 22:47

So even the Attorney General fiddling? Is there no morals in HoC?

Shambu · 16/03/2019 22:48

London scares the shit out of me and I won't go. Too risky

!!? Why? It's very nice here.

SwedishEdith · 16/03/2019 22:54

I'll have to post this again when there's a new thread but W.T.F. do the DUP think they are? I so wish SF would take their seats for just a week or two.

Christopher Hope
‏*@christopherhope*

EXCLUSIVE DUP demands seat at the table in future EU trade talks as price for backing May's deal www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/16/dup-demands-seat-table-future-eu-trade-talks-price-backing-mays/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw … via @telegraphnews

NEW The DUP demand is in two parts:

  1. the EU will not treat Northern Ireland and Britain differently in terms of the customs union and single market after Brexit;
  2. DUP MPs will be "deeply involved" in the UK Government negotiating team over the future trade deal with the EU.
SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 22:54

Terrorism. Won't go to Manchester either. I love London but not been since 2016. Experienced a major traumatic incident there and the people were amazing. So lovely and caring. But since all the terrorism attacks I won't go back.

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 22:55

Good luck with that DUP!!

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