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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
Quintella · 16/03/2019 15:19

Wouldn't Bercow at some point have to stop her and her endless unmeaningful votes?

NoWordForFluffy · 16/03/2019 15:19

I can't see it passing. She wants them (MPs) to blink, I don't think enough will. She will then have to come up with another feasible plan.

I'm looking forward to this week's amendments, quite honestly.

NoWordForFluffy · 16/03/2019 15:20

I doubt he'll allow a 4th go. I think he'll allow a 3rd due to the fucking crisis they've created.

67chevvyimpala · 16/03/2019 15:21

When is the next vote?

jasjas1973 · 16/03/2019 15:22

If she gets 60 plus a few Labour rebels, then she is almost there and can argue for a MV4.

Why do interviewers not challenge MPs who say a 2nd vote would damage democracy? it's just accepted as fact.

Quintella · 16/03/2019 15:22

So Farage walked with the March to Leave brigade for a whole hour before hopping back on the bus and them to it. It's almost like a metaphor for something...

Quintella · 16/03/2019 15:26

It would be interesting if she were to try to "bribe" the SNP with the promise of approving a Section 30 notice hmm. I don't think that they would fall for that

I'd be shocked if they fell for that. The SNP have set their cap too firmly against her and her Brexit mess to do an about turn at this stage in the game. They'd be slaughtered by their own supporters if they did.

Littlespaces · 16/03/2019 15:26

Even if she sneaked the WA through, it is hardly encouraging for later negotiations. Such a rag tag group of different views would fall apart with infighting.

borntobequiet · 16/03/2019 15:27

What May needs is for Corbyn to do or say something that really annoys moderate Labour MPs. So she stands a good chance of succeeding, based on his previous form.

prettybird · 16/03/2019 15:38

Quintella - I don't think the SNP would fall for it either, for exactly the reasons that you describe.

I'd just love her to try it though, in public - just so that the SNP can slap her down Grin But she probably wouldn't have the guts to explore it openly Wink as it would show just how desperate she was Shock

Quintella · 16/03/2019 15:41

Oh I'd be well up for the spectacle of her going cap in hand to the SNP only to be enthusiastically rejected by them! Grin

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 15:44

At this point I'm not sure if I just want a deal agreed so we can make progress or a long extension with the hope of no brexit

theaccidentaleconomist · 16/03/2019 15:53

I'm not sure if this has been posted before but Tony Connelly's behind the scenes look at this week's events makes for an interesting read:

www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0315/1036688-backstop-deal-cox/

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 16:00

This possible alternative plan from Brexit Ultras has been worrying me for months:

If we can't leave on time, we should stay in - and become Macron's worst nightmare

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/16/cant-leave-time-should-stay-become-macrons-worst-nightmare/?lisource=LI&lii_medium=li-recommendation-widget

Who better than the British to demolish the EU from within?

SleightOfMind · 16/03/2019 16:00

Cox’s voting record backs up his boorish behaviour in Brussels.

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
SleightOfMind · 16/03/2019 16:02

We need an extension until we see who takes over the Tories from TM.

The membership are hell bent on putting a headbanger in charge, current favourite among members (who choose the leader) is bloody BoJo! Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 16/03/2019 16:05

{At this point I'm not sure if I just want a deal agreed so we can make progress or a long extension with the hope of no brexit}

Long delays, even a week or two will put the coffin nails into industry unless there are some SERIOUS bribes about to be announced.
Some have announced a 'maintenance shutdown' to cover a couple of weeks, but beyond that if JiT is chaotic (cue Grayling) it will start to take a heavy toll on profits.
Delaying while buggering about is not the answer.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 16:07

accidental From your link, unwise by Cox:

"Cox infuriated Barnier’s deputy Sabine Weyand by calling her "my dear" Hmm during what were described as "robust" exchanges."

Shades of Cameron there and his "calm down, dear"

Why are upper class Tories, even the supposedly "modernised ones", such patronising misogynyt twats ? Hmm

1tisILeClerc · 16/03/2019 16:10

{ If we can't leave on time, we should stay in - and become Macron's worst nightmare}

This is one of the reasons the UK must leave. Not joining in is one thing but actively damaging is disgusting. (failing to find suitable words to emphasise this enough).

Quintella · 16/03/2019 16:10

We need an extension until we see who takes over the Tories from TM.

Exactly. It's unlikely anyone but a total ERG fanboy or girl will be put in place.

jasjas1973 · 16/03/2019 16:19

If we can't leave on time, we should stay in - and become Macron's worst nightmare

But the tories have been doing this for decades.... they never thought they'd win and of course it lets them off the hook from an economically damaging brexit, which could lead to Corbyn getting in....their worst nightmare lol!

Songsofexperience · 16/03/2019 16:27

If we can't leave on time, we should stay in - and become Macron's worst nightmare

Yes this headline fits in perfectly with the ERG 's strategy. However, saying it so loud now indicates to me that it's more of a threat directed at the EU to deter them from granting an extension.
Should the UK not leave, the Trojan horse strategy would be somewhat less effective considering no-one will trust the Brits - at least until a reasonable government takes over...

Songsofexperience · 16/03/2019 16:28

I also think it's pretty disgusting how they've decided to single out Macron/ France. Divide and conquer- always trying the same old recipe.

RhubarbCrumbled · 16/03/2019 16:37

.

borntobequiet · 16/03/2019 16:38

Doing called “my dear” at almost any time is bad enough (except, for example, by my very elderly friend in her 90s). Being called it in that horrible plummy patronising voice Cox has would infuriate the most even-tempered person.