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Brexit

Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2019 12:57

We need Time!
Its the one thing we don't have.

Todays vote is on extending a50.

To the displeasure of leavers, Bercow has selected amendments:

e) Corbyn Amendment
demands the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.

h) Wollaston Amendment
cross party amendment requesting to extend to allow the ability to legislate for a PV

i) Benn Amendment
cross party backbenchers take over parliamentary time from 20th March to find a majority way forward which gives justification for an extension

j) Bryant Amendment
prevents meaningful vote III

After yesterday's vote, May is left with effectively four options:

1) Pass the WA and go for a short technical extension.
An extension would have numbers in the HoC, but passing the WA is a struggle and it's reliant on the EU granting extension which is probably viable in this circumstances.

2) Be defeated getting the WA through and be forced into asking for a long extension as a result. This would include EP elections.
This option is politically toxic to the tories and its unlikely a long extension would pass the HoC. The EU would still need a justification for a long extension - a PV would be the natural option - but not clear if that could pass the HoC. Ditto passing legislation for EP elections. Whole scenario is unlikely

3) Be forced to revoke
Tory party big red button of self destruct

4) Actively decide to pursue an illegal no deal Brexit
Let's not think of the ramification

Going through this at speed, my initial reactions to this are:

If e) passes it doesn't really make much difference to May's choices here, but Labour might have more say.

If h) passes it might make 2) more likely

If i) passes it might open up alternative options

If j) passes we might have a real issue if its the only amendment that passes - it would leave a straight choice of Revoke or No Deal UNLESS i) passes as well.

But there might be other things that are not hitting me right in the face now.

As it stands, Hard Line Brexiteers were earlier today making noises that they would now support the WA - including whispers that this would include the DUP who would be likely to set off a chain reaction of support.

However which (if any) amendments pass today could well affect whether thats even a possibility.

As a result this vote needs to carry the health warning 'Be Careful what you wish for'. What you would LIKE might be extremely high risk and might jeapordise the main vote and the chances of an extension at all.

So whilst Leavers might be unhappy about the choices, it might well ultimately work best for No Dealers. Or it could be a gift for Remainers. Bercow's selections are not necessarily biased for this reason. He does not know the outcome here. If anything it looks like he's actually trying to put more options on the table for the house, rather than allow May to dictate to the house. Which is exactly what he should be doing. He's given parliament the power.

I suspect we will not fully understand what is going on tonight EVEN MORE than last night. And it will take a short while for everyone to calibrate what the eventual result actually is going to mean.

THIS is the most important vote yet. And it has the potential its going to end up m-e-s-s-y.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
QueenOfThorns · 16/03/2019 10:17

I think my last post fell in the category of BullyingPunishmentWishingBadnessOnThem Grin

Violetparis · 16/03/2019 10:22

Do any of you think the Kyle/Labour amendment of putting Theresa May's deal versus Remain to a referendum would get through the House of Commons when or if it is chosen ? I really don't know if it has a chance or not.

LonelyTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 10:26

Queen there is a certain desire for punishment though, mainly because they don't give a shiny shit about what is going on or how it has affected people for 2.5 years. As my leaver friend says it won't affect her either way. So it isn't as important to them to leave as it is to us to stay. As the marches show very clearly...
Yes, I'm hopeful worried Nige may stray a little too close to the edge and nature will take it's revenge with this wind.

ElenadeClermont · 16/03/2019 10:38

BCF Thank you for your comment about the AfD.
I just do not get emotional attachment to currency. Sorry.

I have a nagging feeling that Element is right and Brexit is a cult. So it is difficult to understand the logic from the outside. Unless you are Jeremy C/Hunt.

jasjas1973 · 16/03/2019 10:45

Do any of you think the Kyle/Labour amendment of putting Theresa May's deal versus Remain to a referendum would get through the House of Commons when or if it is chosen ?

Mays deal is a racing certainty to be passed now, so i do not believe any such amendment will ever be passed, let alone be enacted.

Its all over for remainers and the mob has got its way.

She has set very unpleasant precedents for future Govt's to push through bad law.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 10:48

With Sterling, it's not just emotional:
it is survival

The Uk economy only survives, despite its deep structural problems, because Sterling quietly (and sometimes not so quietly) keeps devaluing over the decades

When the Tories went into the ERM, it was disastrous and speculators knew it couldn't hold
but at least we could leave (crashed out)

With the Euro, we would lose our independence currency and be stuck at a particular level largely determined by the other members
Crashing out from this would be a disaster - conversion of debt etc
which is why Greece, despite their problems - refuse to leave the Euro.

Our problems could also wreck the Eurozone, so they wouldn't want us either

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 10:52

When an elderly expat friend first came to Germany in the 1960s, the exchange rate was 12 DM to1 GBP

By 2000, it was only 3 DM per 1 GBP

UK manufacturing, farming etc stayed in business only because the devaluation kept their products sufficiently cheap

QueenOfThorns · 16/03/2019 10:56

Lonely it’s so hard, because my anger and frustration makes me want to lash out at everyone who voted for this, but it would be unfair to blame the masses who were ignorant and manipulated. So I wish many bad things on those who did the manipulating, starting with our Nige. I hope he gets soaked all the way through to his grey baggy y-fronts a bit rained on today. So there!

TheElementsSong · 16/03/2019 11:19

She has set very unpleasant precedents for future Govt's to push through bad law.

THIS. I wonder how many Leavers, seeing as they have such deep concern for Great British law-making and sovereignty, actually give a shit.

LonelyTiredandLow · 16/03/2019 11:24

Thread about Opt Out Organ Donation and I can't help but think those saying "is nothing sacred!" etc are leavers. Short sighted with huge double standards, would happily benefit from the system but want to ensure they don't have to contribute...

I'm seeing everything through Brexit atm. The tip trip yesterday I wondered if everyone sitting inertly in their cars was a leaver and were overly fearful of simple social situations - fear and authoritarianism going hand in hand.

67chevvyimpala · 16/03/2019 11:25

Nick boles has resigned from his Tory party association

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 11:27

jasjas1973 why do you think TM's deal passing a now a certainty? What has changed so much from Wednesday to make it pass?

Songsofexperience · 16/03/2019 11:28

What are the numbers like on the vote next week? The DUP's support seems to have been bought. Who else is likely to go with it? She needs to turn about 75 MPs, right?

borntobequiet · 16/03/2019 11:34

I think now it might go to WA4 (if allowed)...a big march might really put the frighteners on the ERG...
Really very windy where I am! Didn’t think it was going to last into the weekend - windy weather always unnerves me, partly because I live directly below a very big, very old and very fragile roof.

QueenOfThorns · 16/03/2019 11:40

jasjas1973 why do you think TM's deal passing a now a certainty? What has changed so much from Wednesday to make it pass?

I feel the same. TM has terrified the ERG into thinking there might be no Brexit at all, so a lot of them will vote for the WA to avoid revoke. She’ll bribe the DUP into supporting her, then job done Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 11:47

NIck Boles jumping before he is pushed.
I wonder if he'll jump as far as the tiggers

NoWordForFluffy · 16/03/2019 11:49

He seems to suggest not from the BBC story.

I wonder if Dominic Grieve or any other of this week's rebels will follow suit?

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 11:51

What is Bercow doesn't allow MV3?

NoWordForFluffy · 16/03/2019 11:54

There'll be a whole load of motions put forward to vote on for an alternate option, I'd think. The gov would table something (god knows what) and the back benchers will put amendments forwards, to be chosen by Bercow.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 11:55

Signs of panic at the Torygraph that the Ultras are prepared to force a GE

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/15/brexiteers-should-stop-fretting-learn-love-backstop/

Is this how it ends?
< evil misogynyst shitbag > Sir Christopher Chope MP and a band of brothers on a hill, deciding bravely to knife their own side in the back.

It’s a measure of how desperate things are among the Brexiteers that, this week,

the hard-liner Sir Christopher actually floated the idea of casting in his lot with Labour and collapsing his own party’s government in a no-confidence vote.
< shows how fanatical the real Brexit Ultras are >

His reasoning seems to be that, since the exit day of 29 March is currently enshrined in legislation,
collapsing the government could stop the legislation from being amended between now and then, making Brexit a legal fact.

This madcap plan is a non-starter, because even an interim Prime Minister can still delay Brexit.
< but she might flinch from this, during a GE campaign >

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 11:58

Batshit Chope had an amendment to sack the UK negotiating team and replace them,
ignoring the fact that there will be NO more negotiations

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 12:00

Gotta love that Torygraph photo

  • I think the magic has worn off !
Westminstenders: And I neeeedddd moreeeee timeeeeee!
Hasenstein · 16/03/2019 12:03

The BBC has shoehorned a mention of Farage's stagger march at the bottom of the Nick Boles story. It will be interesting to see how reporting on this Farage charade goes over the nest few days. Led By Donkeys will be accompanying them with their customary encouraging reminders of past Brexiteer lies rallying calls. It has every hope of descending onto sheer farce, so I hope the MSM will be affording it plenty of coverage.

SparklySneakers · 16/03/2019 12:06

I'm not counting my chickens until the vote results are in. This whole process has shown that nothing is certain except MPs don't do what they say they will or what we think they will and nothing seems to change yet the 29th moves ever closer. What is it now, 13 days?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/03/2019 12:17

Brexit is one week on Friday, unless May / the HoC choose one of the available options.