The Magic Brexit Money Tree

[MillytantForceit]

...Children! Lollipops! Lollipops if you vote for my deal!

I haven’t personally been effected by high levels of immigration, but many people have.
No, actually, a very small number of people in a few very unusual and specific parts of the UK have. And the effects could and should have been managed and mitigated by our own government.

I voted leave to stop F.O.M & the exploitation of cheap labour.
The exploitation of cheap labour is, again, to be laid at the door of our domestic government.
Plus I wasn’t sure what direction the EU was going in ( would Turkey eventually join? who knows? )
Turkey have been trying to join for, what is it, twenty years? And are not doing themselves any favours at the moment in terms of human rights.

But sure, why not vote for economic misery just in case Turkey might join decades down the line.

If those are what you voted for surferjet, they are not really very strong arguments, but each to their own.

You voted to stop the exploitation of cheap labour - so instead immigration from outside the EU (which I will remind you again, we could control) has increased. What is to stop unscrupulous employers exploiting them? Particularly those from long distances away who can't easily jump on and Easyjet flight and go back to Poland? Do you recall the Chinese Morecambe Bay cockle pickers drowning some years back? Who was looking after their health and welfare?

Would Turkey join the EU? One shouldn't listen to Farage. A modicum of reading shows that Turkey has been making noises about wanting to join the EU for getting on for 40 years now, but would have to satisfy a number of tests, which it was no where near beginning to satisfy, so the simple answer was 'Not in the foreseeable future. With Erdogan in power it is now even less likely.

So the EU then made no difference to your life, as far you were aware. It might well do if your job goes down the pan. So far, that is the direction that the work is going - dressed up with excuses of course by Leavers like Dyson. Crowing about how we Remainers lost, get over it, won't bring those jobs back.

Good to see inquitous little surfer shinging throw like the xenophobe she is.

Outside of London EU immigrants don't even make up 5% of the population in most areas.

So its not immigration causing any of the problems that you identify.

"I voted leave to stop F.O.M & the exploitation of cheap labour. "

No data anywhere supports the idea that wages are lowered by the EU, you and your leaver chums jump on the BOE study, but fail to do the maths where it states that it works out at a penny and hour decrease in pay raises per year for 8 years, far lower than the rate at which the NMW has increased, and significantly lower than the rate of tax threshold increase. Meaning immigration has had no negative effect on the real incomes taken by any individual.

Unbelievable! It's hard to understand Surferjet how you conclude that being in the EU hasn't affected your daily life! Being in the EU (as it was then, and is now) has an impact on a multitude of aspects of your daily life from the pesticides allowed on the cereal that you eat for breakfast, to the employment regs for workers who pick your vegetables, to the legislation governing safety standards of toys that your DC or GC play with, to the research funding for the pills you buy from the pharmacy, to pollution levels permitted on beaches, to name but a few examples!

And how on earth do you think coming out of the EU will stop the exploitation of cheap labour? It will have the opposite effect! Indeed, that is what the ERG are hoping for!

Anyway @surferjet , I thought you were bored with Brexit threads and didn't go on them anymore?

Yet another promise that'll be broken as this branch of the magic money tree will probably be sawn off

Funny that - we are usually told that Leavers didn't vote to curb immigration.

To be fair, surfer has been banging on about immigration for ages now. Immigration this, immigration that, blah blah immigrants...

Agreed that surfer has been one of the few who have never denied that her vote was entirely down to immigration.

Sadly she has never explained how she thinks curbing EU immigration is actually going to help without using anything other than soundbites and rhetoric.

ex-Public library librarian here. I can give you many facts and some theories about the closure of libraries. Curiously enough, immigration isn't one of them. The main reason is the ideological hatred for the public sector and any form of organised local system with influence.

And how on earth do you think coming out of the EU will stop the exploitation of cheap labour? It will have the opposite effect! Indeed, that is what the ERG are hoping for!

This.
It's much easier to exploit people who live in fear of the hostile environment (non EU). Much harder with people who have equal rights and protection (EU nationals under fom rules).

Surfer is an idiot quite frankly, she repeats myths about immigration and pretends its out of concerns for the poor.

That pretend concern for the poor is one of Umberto Eco's signs of fascism.

Sorry I don't mean to get at Surfer personally as at least she is prepared to put her arguments forward unlike other Leavers who have gone quiet. And I don't like snippiness on threads. But the almost blithe, not to mention ignorant, statements from her and other Leavers about:

(A) "protecting the poor" when a vote to Leave basically signs away a lot of the legislation and workers rights that offers them protection

(B) and "apart from that, being in the EU doesn't really affect me" (or words to that effect) when it affects all of us (generally for the better) every day in a myriad of ways

is just so frustrating to read and factually wrong!

It makes me livid and extremely at the same time.

Yes, you probably can have them back once we control immigration

Less people = less need for housing = less building on greenbelt

Not happening though is it? record non EU immigration, totals as high as ever, inward EU migration super low.

We have now swapped white Christian european migrants for non white, non Christian migrants but good for you that you support a more multi faith multi cultural UK.

Also, Govt targets for house building over the next 10 to 15 years is even higher, now 300,000 per annum.

I'm not expressing myself very well. Sorry. Meant to say that the fact that Leave supporters cast their vote on the basis of (a) factually wrong information and (b) seemed to do it almost blithely because after all "the EU doesn't affect me really" when the results will I believe be so disastrous for so many, makes me want to shake with rage and cry all at the same time. And if that's "hysterical" I don't really care.

I imagine some sheep farmers are feeling pretty hysterical right arm. Many of them are wondering if the lambs they are helping to bring in to the world right now will be able to be sold on to their usual established markets in the EU, or will they lose their entire income for this year. Would you trust Gove to protect your future livelihood?

I voted leave to get us away from the ECJ.
I do not the idea of our Judicial system being overruled by the EU.
And because of the high level of immigration in my area. I do not think we should be building more houses, schools, hospitals just because we have high immigration. The high level of immigration put severe pressure on some services where I live.

When did you last vote for the second chamber who have a lot of influence on our legislation?

Copper immigration isn't going down - just from the mainly Christian white EU population. In fact the deals made by May with India and China (when she flew over in 2016) suggest a surge in 'students' from these countries coming over in the coming years - apparently this is to aid trade talks. See this article in Indian paper

"I do not the idea of our Judicial system being overruled by the EU. "

In any trade deal there will be a court of arbitration that will have power like the ECJ.

We aren't leaving the ECHR which has power over our judicial system, and that isn't anything to do with the EU.

The impact of immigration on services is well documented, a reduction in immigration means a reduction in funding for services without the subsequent fall in demand because immigrants don't use the services much,

Crap argument.

It's a shame people didn't pay more attention to Failing Grayling and his legal aid stance that's done more damage to the legal system in this country in the last decade.

Personally I'd rather be part of a bloc known for protecting consumers against giants such as Amazon and Google than on our own and allowing their data hoarding as a pay off for trade.

Wrong link Grayling legal aid cuts.

Boris, you think any argument for voting leave is ‘crap’ - not sure why you bother posting on here tbh.
I voted leave & will never regret it, but I do understand why people voted remain & I’d never say their reasons were crap.

Your reasons are crap though surfer, and provably so.

And yes all reasons for wanting to leave were crap, not heard one which justifies the potential impact of leaving.

The irony of it is that the campaign you voted for was led by people who prior to the vote had made their polices on the lowest paid and wages clear.

They aren't going to get better. So like all leavers you voted for your own personal version of leave for your own personal incorrect and badly justified reasons.

You lost as much as any remainer because the outcome you wanted won't happen.

Many of them are wondering if the lambs they are helping to bring in to the world right now will be able to be sold on to their usual established markets in the EU, or will they lose their entire income for this year.

Perhaps those who voted Leave will be asking themselves why exactly the voted to destroy their livelihoods? Or why they were stupid enough to believe Farage and Johnson, neither of whom would know one end of a lamb from another?

Ditto Sunderland car workers. You were warned, you were advised not to vote Leave, you dismissed it all as Project Fear.

The only group of Leavers that I have a modicum of sympathy with are those who hoped it would bring more money for the NHS. Before anyone says, why would the Tories do such an about turn when they are trying to destroy the NHS, it was as conceivable to take the Leave vote as being for that, as it was for May's hard Brexit. May could have started there, with a committed promise for new money for the NHS and she would have kept a few people onside. Instead, the ERG and their wrecking ball held sway with her.

And yes, the money would be there for the NHS - the money that Grayling has wasted would have been useful.