The Magic Brexit Money Tree

[MillytantForceit]

...Children! Lollipops! Lollipops if you vote for my deal!

the "Coming over here to scrounge benefits" one.

I haven't mentioned anything about benefits.

I mentioned fear, and feeling uncomfortable^ around poverty - i.e. the visual perception of poverty. I doubt the homeless people we see on the streets actually claim benefits.

Just found this - from 2010;

Poverty is more likely cause of mistrust than race, says study

www.theguardian.com/society/2010/nov/28/poverty-race-diversity-trust-study

"Basically it is poverty not race that makes people uneasy and not trust each other," said Patrick Sturgis, of the National Centre for Research Methods at Southampton University."If it were somehow possible to make every neighbourhood in Britain completely ethnically homogeneous, it would have a barely perceptible impact on the extent to which the British trust people in their neighbourhoods."

But you mentioned specifically European poverty, which implies the things suggested.

Research from 2010 ( and conducted prior to 2010) is hardly relevant to things that caused people to vote the way they did in 2016.

Immigration was the major factor.

"In middle class areas that voted leave-I think there's a fear of European poverty coming to the UK, not racism or fear of other nationalities."

I take it you mean E European, which suffered under decades of Communism. But well done, Leavers, because you are likely to get the same lack of investment and decades of poverty.

As for the racism - why was Farage's poster so successful if at least one group of Leavers weren't racist?

I think you are tying yourself up in knots Clavinova, but never mind because you will probably get your Leave.

But you mentioned specifically European poverty

Of course I did - this is a Brexit thread.

I also said that the middle classes are uncomfortable around UK poverty as well. All my European friends and family, and one set of grandparents (from mainland Europe, not Ireland) are middle class Europeans. I almost voted to remain but I didn't - for a number of reasons.

I doubt these homeless people are claiming benefits but they are highly visible;

www.indy100.com/article/the-majority-of-homeless-people-in-london-are-foreign-nationals--WkxGkDhwuJW

London voted to remain but millions of middle class commuters and day trippers pass by every week/month.

What nationality and social class are you Boris?

If discussing European poverty, IIRC at least 2 out of the top (bottom) 10 poorest European cities are in the UK.

As for the racism-why was Farage's poster so successful if at least one group of Leavers weren't racist?

Hand on heart - I don't know what poster you are talking about - but of course there are racists in every country. In any case - I thought UKIP supporters were meant to be a bit yobbish - from working class backgrounds.

If discussing European poverty, IIRC at least 2 out of the top (bottom) 10 poorest European cities are in the UK.

Then surely - it's the fear of adding to that statistic.

If you can't understand what I am getting at then it's no wonder you were surprised by the EU Referendum result.You couldn't understand why businesspeople disliked EU red tape either.

Not even EU citizens - I think Syrians fleeing the Civil War there. In front that son of the working class the Dulwich College schooled (I won't say educated) Farage.

If that wasn't dog whistle politics to the racists and xeonphobes I don't know what was.

But UK red tape will be so much better! Bring it on.

".You couldn't understand why businesspeople disliked EU red tape either"

The majority of UK business backed remaining in the EU though, the IOD, CBI, BCC all did as did the vast majority of companies in the FTSE 500.

I also doubt the % of foreign nationals being homeless swung much of the vote.

The stuff about immigrants and benefits that was all over the press for months prior to the vote, yeah I can.

Peregrina

I can honestly say that I don't remember seeing that poster.

But UK red tape will be so much better!

Hopefully that will be dealt with in a matter of a months/a few years;
EU red-tape has been a problem for decades.Yes, the EU were starting to deal with it (and making some progress) - but not quite quickly enough. I posted several links from the EU Commission website (2013/14) in which they acknowledged their reputation as a bureaucratic monster.

I've just found this from Nov 2015:

Call for business red-tape reduction

Eighteen EU member states have joined Chancellor George Osborne and Business Secretary Sajid Javid in calling on the EU to slash burdens on business, demonstrating a clear commitment from across Europe to the UK’s competitiveness agenda.

www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-18-other-eu-countries-call-for-business-red-tape-reduction

And yet you still maintain that red-tape was not one of the triggers for Brexit. Thousands of small and medium businesses are affected by EU red-tape - and many of them have no trade whatsoever with other EU countries.

Yes, yes we know about the Tories slashing burdens on business. My answer now is always - Grenfell. An avoidable tragedy, because 'red tape' i.e. health and safety measures, some of which had been in place since the Great Fire of London were scrapped. So that some already wealthy people could make some more money.

I know that Stephen Martin, the previous director-general of the Institute of Directors voted to leave the EU and he hails from Northern Ireland.

{You couldn't understand why business people disliked EU red tape either.}
Nobody LIKES red tape, but it is necessary. Be happy in that the UK is about to make more of it. If companies in the UK are wanting to trade with the EU, they will still have to comply.

Does his vote carry more weight than the majority in NI who voted to Remain? Or is this like "I have an EEuropean friend so I'm not prejudiced against people from E Europe "

Yes, yes we know about the Tories slashing burdens on business.

You still don't get it.

We've already had the EU Referendum and we voted to leave.
I've given you some non racist reasons why.

Re Grenfell - perhaps important regulations were overlooked because everyone was too busy dealing with unimportant ones. In the EU Commission report (from their website) - they admitted that some of their regulations received ridicule; they gave an example (from 2012 - I think) which stated that hairdressers shouldn't be allowed to wear high heels and jewellery. The regulation was later withdrawn.

If we have another referendum (unlikely) - I think it might be leave again - or at least very close.

I have to go out now anyway.

It's interesting how Leave arguers always suddenly find themselves swept up with things to do when the conversation gets sticky.

Or squirrels.

{Re Grenfell - perhaps important regulations were overlooked because everyone was too busy dealing with unimportant ones. In the EU Commission report (from their website) - they admitted that some of their regulations received ridicule; they gave an example (from 2012 - I think) which stated that hairdressers shouldn't be allowed to wear high heels and jewellery. The regulation was later withdrawn.}

You are now being truly pathetic dragging up anything you can find. The UK has voted leave. Do the EU a favour and just leave on 29 March by the least damaging route (passing the WA) and show the world how fabulous the Brexiteers plans are for sunny uplands and unicorns.

"I've given you some non racist reasons why."

But they aren't the major reasons.

One former cheif of the IOD does not equal the position stated by the organisation.

hairdressers shouldn't be allowed to wear high heels and jewellery

Yeah ... except that wasn't actually the EU, that was a draft plan drawn up European employers' and workers' representatives.

Being stabbed by a hairdresser because they are wearing inappropriate footwear and falling is obviously dangerous.