The Magic Brexit Money Tree

[MillytantForceit]

...Children! Lollipops! Lollipops if you vote for my deal!

The irony of it is that the campaign you voted for was led by people who prior to the vote had made their polices on the lowest paid and wages clear

You mean Tories?

But they’re not in power for ever with no chance of getting rid of them.
You vote in labour or the liberals next time.

< can’t believe I’m having to explain this >

A flimsy argument, surferjet. May lost the election, and her Government is now propped up by a handful of politicians which no one in Great Britain was able to vote for.

The campaign you voted for was led by and planned by the authors of "Britannia Unchained", JRM et al, all of whom have discussed removing things like the minimum wage and employment regulations.

So don't pretend you did it out of some sympathy for the poor, even though the reasons you gave are demonstrably incorrect anyway.

They won't be in power forever, but those of us who have a modicum of understanding of why these people drove the leave vote know why they did so and how difficult it will be to reverse the policies that the implement in future.

I can't believe someone who is so lacking is so arrogant as you.

Protect GFA - that was my No.1 reason for voting Remain. I had others like not being seduced by disaster capitalists and not wanting to be on the side chosen by Tommy Robinson types.
Do they sound crap to you, @surferjet ?

To protect the GFA was the clincher for me too, being a hard won agreement. I had toyed with the idea of a Leave vote to give Cameron a kick in the teeth. I am so glad I didn't; whatever shit show Leave causes, I know I am not partly responsible, even though I will have to live with the consequences.

Peregrina not all hill farmers voted for Brexit by any means! Can't cut and paste large chunks of text with this old device so linking this article instead (see first two paras). Their livelihoods without EU subsidies are looking very bleak indeed and uncertain as is the future of the physical landscape itself.

Sanguine - I know not all hill farmers did. We have a poster on these threads whose partner is a hill farmer, and its tragic to read about how his work is likely to be wasted and his living destroyed.

Here in the south east though, I know that the local farmer was a Leave supporter - going by the posters attached to his fences. He's not a sheep farmer - arable mostly, with a sideline of poultry for Christmas, pick your own, and er, car boots sales and hiring out his barn for community events. His business may well go down the pan, but that will be due to the land being built on for housing - so neither leaving nor staying in the EU is likely to save him.

But they’re not in power for ever with no chance of getting rid of them.
You vote in labour or the liberals next time

Unlikely given an aging population and JC.

May is possibly the worst PM we've ever had, not only mishandling Brexit & sticking with Grayling but her denials on any link between Police numbers and knife killings is very distasteful.... yet the Cons are still riding high.

the Cons will also survive any issues with Islamophobia too, most people in the UK would agree with them on that, so could get them a few more votes.

Corbyn is possibly the worst ever leader of an opposition too.

Yes Jasjas Oh to be to be a fly on the wall during a conversation between Cressida Dick and TM this afternoon!

And YY Peregrina I know a farmer of similar ilk (friend of family) down in Devon (very comfortably off) who is the leading light of the local Leave campaign. I agree that particular sort deserve to reap what they sow.

Hill farmers on the other hand risk not only this year's profits but all the years of careful breeding and selection that go in to building up the particular characteristics of their herds that enable them to survive in those particular harsh landscapes.

As if life wasn't hard enough without Brexit looming... .

I didn't comment about the ECHR. I am aware of the difference. And of course we will need a court of arbitration for trade deals, but the powers will be very different to those of the ECJ.
I would vote leave again anytime, for the same reasons.
Schools in my area had a large influx of East European children and it definitely affected the teaching of the local children. Schools are services. The immigrant population use them. Maternity units are also well used by the immigrant population.

Any court of arbitration will have very similar powers over UK courts as the ECJ has, can you identify an ECJ ruling that you object to btw?

"Schools in my area had a large influx of East European children and it definitely affected the teaching of the local children."

I guarantee you that you are talking rubbish, and your experience is tainted by your prejudices.

All of the evidence from areas with high levels of children of EAstern European migrants shows that there is no difference in outcomes for children.

"Maternity units are also well used by the immigrant population."

About the only service which is! In fact in lots of areas, for example Boston Lincs, the immigrant population has meant that the town retained its maternity services because of the increase in demand.

Its funny too that when you look at Boston Lincs and the the locals complain about the pressure on services that the reality of it is not found by the town council or the local NHS.

94% of children get their first choice primary school for example, and the council found no difference in educational outcomes.

Copper

the ECJ is the final court of arbitration for interpretation revolving around EU law (which we have helped form and signed up for) has UK judges sitting on it & doesn't have anything to do with UK law.

I ve sympathy for areas that have received large influx of migrants and children, it puts huge strain on services.... and your kids only have one shot at education.
if overall migration was going to fall substantially, than sure, i can easily see why folk want to leave the EU in those areas.

Its not though non EU is set to rocket (already is) as we seek to become Global Britain.

The majority of children of EU migrants are born here.

They make up a very small proportion of the entire school population even in highly populated areas, they may make up a large percentage of one or two particular schools.

Schoools with high proportions of non- british white ( as EU migrant children are classed) do less well than schools with smaller numbers in achieving the target number of 80% level 4 and above.

On average nationally 81.4 per cent of children achieved a level 4 in reading, writing and maths. Schools with higher numbers of NBW pupils, and therefore higher numbers of pupils with EAL, do less well in meeting this target than schools with low numbers of NBW pupils (79.3 per cent compared with 82.4 per cent).

However this is only one measure, and the gap is very small, and doesn't provide for similarities of schools.

and when measured against schools that are similar in other aspects ( socio economic groupings etc) schools with high proportions of NBW pupils do better than those schools most similar to them, but with low proportions of NBW pupils (79.3 per cent compared with 77.1 per cent). So a far bigger gap, demonstrating that schools with immigrants tend to do better.

Ahh evidence is such a good thing.

I don't care what you say. It is the fact that the ECJ has jurisdiction over our courts that I object to. It is not any particular law. It is the principle of the thing.
And you do not live where I live.
There were large numbers of East European children in schools to the detriment of the local children. Resources needed to be redirected to teach them English.
In some classes they were the majority.
And I really can't see what getting their first choice of schools has to do with it. It was happening once they were in school.
You are very good at finding totally irrelevant facts, like the ECHR and the percentage getting first choice school.
To be honest your spurious facts are of no interest to me.
And, while we are at it, I think Theresa May is an excellent Prime Minister Whois doing her best to reach a compromise.

Copper

I doubt very much that any facts figures or reason would be of any interest to you.
You re fixed in your views and beliefs.

That we'll be purely under WTO rules that have made by other states and in which we have no say and is also the final court of Arbitration will matter little you.... so long as we are free from the hated EU.

Dairy Crest was recently sold to a Canadian Company (ironically from the french speaking part of Canada) one of the comments i read on FB about this was "so long as it hasn't been sold to a European company i don't care"

You could have written that.

TM is not interested in compromise, anymore than you are.

I don't care what you say.

Summarises Brexit in a sentence

And yet the same people usually drone on about democracy and the will of the people. The will of the people is never an excuse to silence (crush) the minority. Not unless you believe some people are more equal than others.

No one else can control our laws but if they don't do what I want then they are the enemy! Judges are 'experts' etc, etc.

Those pesky experts eh? Same ones who argue the Earth is a GLOBE! OMG!
(Just watched Behind the Curve on Netflix about flat earthers. Main argument? Scientists/ experts just 'throw maths at us' 🤣)
That's where blind distrust in facts takes us. What a rabbit hole to fall into!

Quietrebel and they wonder why none of the "non-experts" can't pull a trade deal out of thin air after nearly 3 years. Well, one of them didn't even know how reliant we were on Calais...

Let's get Farage out to schools to teach kids not to smoke? What could be the harm?

And of course we will need a court of arbitration for trade deals, but the powers will be very different to those of the ECJ.

So copper where is this court of arbitration going to come from? Will it be magicking itself into existence like the easiest trade deals in history that were also going come into existence. So who will take disputes to them? EU members will use their own court, they won't come to a non-existent British one.

No one is an ‘expert’ on leaving the EU because no one has ever left before.

People are expert at putting across biased opinions.

That’s all.

Prejudice from people like Copper is a horrible thing

A visceral dislike of the ECJ just because it is the ECJ and a dogmatic determination to accept any other jurisdiction, even where the UK would have less influence

And a visceral determination to blame all schooling woes on immigrants rather than lack of funding (especially since on balance, EU immigrants contribute more to public coffers than they take out - so they are the ones being exploited)

For balance: 60% of the pupils at ds' old state primary school spoke English as an Additional Language (EAL). It was still (or rather, because of that) a brilliant school, an exemplar of best practice at dealing with EAL.

That proportion is unlikely to change with Brexit a) because we are in Scotland and need (and welcome) more immigration (although have no say over immigration policy ) and b) most of those EAL speakers are from the Punjab and speak Urdu as their first language.

At his old state secondary school there are apparently 55 languages spoken . It still manages to get excellent results, thanks to a fantastic ethos (which celebrates the diversity) and a good management team and, of course, great teachers . And more importantly, it turns out well rounded individuals, well equipped to cope with life after school (Very low drop out rate at Uni as they are taught how to be disciplined and organised, rather than spoon fed, unlike schools in a neighbouring LA which theoretically has better exam results whose pupils have a very high drop out rate when they have to think for themselves do their own work ).

I am glad to live in a multi-ethnic city.

Oh - and we voted 70% Remain. I don't think that that is a coincidence