Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Watched PMQs yesterday with Lidlington and Thornberry. She was very good - pushing back (in a lovely, reasonable voice) on the fact she wasn't getting answers to her questions and that it was up to Lidlington to answer her questions, not ask her questions

I liked her start when she thanked him for standing in for the PM and that he was usually referred to in the press as effectively the PM's deputy, "the only time effective and PM are used in the same sentence"

Having said that, he did strike an accurate blow when he said that her promotion of the Norway model ignored the inconvenient fact that it also required FoM.

Very obvious feline royal flounder.

I was talking to a colleague the other night who said that May's approach reminded him of the generals in WW1... a dogged determination that refuses to engage with reality, sending men over the top month after month in the hope that one day their luck would turn.

Couldn't disagree.

Irish Times reports US warning on trade deal if soft Border in Ireland is not maintained

Efferlunt, you are not the only one feeling like that. The number of people with their heads in the sand astonishes me.

Car crash imminent

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Going back to how do you protect your savings in a no deal scenario, am I better off having shares than cash in a savings account? When governments have frozen accounts in other countries, is that just what people have been holding as actual money?

What happens to the Irish border if/when we leave with no deal? Surely the EU will need a border between the Republic and NI. Is the UK govt hoping it'll be the EU that implement it?
Is this the bargaining tool UK has? Agree to our WA and amendments or we'll No Deal exit and you'll need to install a border.

@libertyonhertravels - so interesting that the pressure is being applied on ERG from both Europe and now the US.

Simon Coveney is playing a blinder! Can't wait to see the outcome of all the Irish ministers on their Paddy's Day trips this year. Very interesting to see what Trump has to say about the hard border.

Going back to how do you protect your savings in a no deal scenario, am I better off having shares than cash in a savings account? When governments have frozen accounts in other countries, is that just what people have been holding as actual money?

The problem is under emergency powers, that's nothing you can do except hold gold. Accounts can be frozen, and cash simply made obsolete by introducing new notes - making any held useless.

I'd be surprised if account freezing can be particularly granular, so at least there will be the knowledge that while you can't get your money, your landlords bank can't accept it either.

But if things got that bad, money - or lack thereof - really will be the last thing on your mind.

placemarking

Placemarking.

lonelyandtired that's really interesting and you must score very highly in patience! One leaver friend has shown her self to be 100% I'm alright jack. I look at her so differently now and I don't like the fact I can't deal with her. Also how did I not notice the extent of her selfishness before? It's shockingly extreme and we've been friends for 15 yrs.
I wish you had a transcript of your friend to! It would be interesting to see her teacher's hat on as she interpreted her own thoughts....though y'know what they say about psychology students
The non confrontational approach works best day to day. Any memes/chats which are I just quip that someone could do with going on the Prevent Programme for extremism. Then we joke about what politicians need to go with them!

I will try to steal some of the lonelyandtired method and patience for inspiration

Right I've got brain freeze now:

UK told to uphold Belfast Agreement if it wants US trade deal

As I understand it ,from a Leave POV, we are doing all this sheer shit so we can trade more with the rest of the world. Over and above our existing EU deals with 80 + countries. Really it's so we can get ERG and Liam Fox's great US trade deal.

After all Fox is in charge of trade and he set up an ( illegal) charity Atlantic Bridge exclusively focussed on building those links further and changing the basis of our trade.

Yet the uS want us to retain open borders on the island of Ireland?

Isn't this oxymoronic or something?

PMK, and for Donald Tusk for speaking the truth!

Oh John Bercow calling out Peter Bone is a joy to behold : twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1093256891520770048?s=19

Long time lurker here, I read most of these posts but never add anything.

A perspective from the many people I speak to in RL about why we aren't all charging around in blind panic about this:

• We're bored of it after years of chat and seemingly nothing happening
• We don't want to offend people with very different views who we migjt not have discussed this with before.
• What will be will be! I've signed petitions, marched, voted, written to MPs. Whenever asked my opinion I give it. But ultimately I feel completely powerless because of the fucking nutjob 52% led by the shitty murdoch desmond media to do anything, so I don't see the point of blind panic
• Actually my kid's high temperature / new job application / sorting my slow commute to work / choosing curtains for my kitchen / getting food in for my friend and her fussy kids to come and stay is more pressing today, and I'm so worn out from worrying about brexit, trump, climate change, local crime, the job security, my flabby body etc etc that I don't have enough headspace to worry about any of these in a concentrated way!
• I don't want to be a bore to my other friends and it isn't very cool to talk about brexit all day long

To get through my normal day to day life I focus on sorting healthy meals, snuggling my children and partner, trying to do a good job at work, and finding something decent to watch on TV for the odd hour free I get when an evening isn't taken up with chores.

Ultimately I assume that there will be some kind of last minute saving deal which means no deal won't happen, if not then I'll face that when I have to and not before. In the meantime I am gathering a few surplus bits in the garage so I can keep those healthy meals going through April and until my mum's allotment starts producing

The Irish lobby in the US will, quite rightly, be wanting to protect GFA for peace. It will also be concerned about UK taking steps which fucks over Irish food supply and causes problems there. The British fucking over Irish food supply (that's being polite) is generally the reason many Irish people emigrated to the US in the first place in the 19th Century so it will be a strong part of Irish origin US politicians' family stories.
Other US politicians will be mindful of pissing off Irish descent Americans.

Another lurker surfacing, though I've posted a couple of times much earlier under different names. Also not sleeping well, especially in the small hours. I've got other significant worries atm so the slomo Brexit carcrash has helpfully joined the queue.

Last night, though, when I did sleep, I dreamed about it for the first time. I was at a friend's house and she opened a cupboard (quite a large, floor-to-ceiling one) and said regretfully 'that's all the space I've got for Brexit supplies'.

Even in the dream I was full of rage that this unutterable shitshow has now taken over my sleeping as well as waking moments. I feel so full of rage most of the time it's actually frightening me

@RedToothBrush @BigChocFrenzy @DGRossetti and all those who are following this closely in the UK, can I ask you where Keir Starmer has gone? A few months ago he seemed to be a reasonable alternative voice to Brexiteer but haven't heard or seen him at all recently. (I'm in Ireland so get my news from RTÉ, Irish newspapers with the odd foray into the Channel 4 news - so maybe it is a reporting issue or has he been silenced by the Labour Party?)

I'm hoping Keir is planning his leadership bid.

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I think he would do well to stay out of it now - as you say he is too reasonable to tarnish his reputation over this shambles and there is very little to be done by anyone, other than the Tories it seems, until vote time.

Morning all.
The people I speak to are in total denial about what is coming. It's too big for them to comprehend. They don't believe that anyone would let us get to that stage. Im really hoping that I look like chicken little (the book) to them when this is all done with.

I've occasionally reflected how people in war torn countries keep going on with their daily lives in between the horror. Being able to just not think about stuff is an important survival skill for societies.

As to why people aren't doing more / paying attention ...see the La Fontaine Fable "The Swallow and the Little Birds" www.musee-jean-de-la-fontaine.fr/jean-de-la-fontaine-fable-uk-130.html It was written in the 1600s...plus ça change 😞.