Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

It was in the press a week or two ago.

Was it? I've missed that - I'm going to look.

But they claim that no-one has had their trips cancelled - they have just been moved onto a ferry that leaves at a different time mealy mouthed pedantry, verging on gas lighting

If we were French there would be a whole lot more going on. I see this in the farming community. When the dairy farmers were screwed over by the supermarkets, a farmer politely brought a cow into a supermarket. The French farmers spray shit everywhere and block the route of the Tour de France

Even the fact that this thread is buried in the Brexit topic shows up the general inertia.

I hope people wake up soon.

Derxa, you aren't wrong and maybe we should be a bit more French!

Can find bookings have been amended but not cancelled. Yes, technically, the original booking has been cancelled but then rebooked. Inconvenient but happens on flights as well. Not minimising but it's alarmist to just report it as "cancellations".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46946499

www.scotsman.com/business/companies/retail/ferry-customers-have-sailings-cancelled-due-to-possible-no-deal-brexit-1-4859649

Whenever anyone posts about Brexit elsewhere on MN, it gets moved to this topic.

Whenever anyone posts about Brexit elsewhere on MN, it gets moved to this topic.

It should be mainstream. It affects everything!

It's bizarre. Like if they file it away neatly in a hidden part of the website the whole mess can be kept out of sight and mind.

They don't like it being mainstream on mn. Puts off the advertisers or their Daily Mail demographic or something.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3504493-Westminstenders-Competitive-Stupidity?watched=1
New Thread

Looking at Mumsnet - demographic youngish, educated - it should be flooded with Brexit threads

There was a concerted effort early in to push everything into a hidden space. MNHQ admitted it, so you don't need to conspiracise there.

But even when threads were started elsewhere, before being moved, there was a huge rush of "WE WON GET OVER IT" type postings that drowned out debate. As with the newspaper up/down voting system, a brief fiddle with paper and pen (if needed) and application of basic ratios revealed that in an officially recorded 52/48 split either only the 48% had access to the internet, or the 52% had taken some sort of vow of silence. One of the reasons to be very ... open minded about "polls".

When you dig a bit deeper into the mix, you see there are in reality very few Leavers posting more than slogans and soundbites and that become engaged (as in reading and formulating replies to comments).

I've come around to the idea that Brexit was the self destruct button on the bridge of the UK. (But then I was bought up a Trekkie ). David Cameron armed the system , but it was the supremely moronic May that actually pressed it. The destruction it will cause will be the break up of the Union, and a collapse of the Tory and Labour paradigms of politics. Maybe in 50 years it will have been worth it. But Brexiteers and Remainers alike won't benefit from it at all.

re British versus French methods of protest

It's not true to say that the British haven't come out against Brexit: they did so, in the largest march since rage Iraq war. They just did it too politely.

In fairness the "remain"-equivalent segment of French society is very polite too. There was a big march against the gilets jaunes a couple of weeks ago. As big as or bigger than any of the gilets jaunes marches. But they didn't smash anything up, throw things at policemen or write Juden on Jewish shop fronts. So it didn't really get any coverage.

People below a certain age won't recall the Poll Tax riot of 1990. So it's not true the British can't make their feelings forcefully known, if it's needed.

There are too many parallels to mention between then and now - an arrogant out of touch PM ruling by decree and ignoring expert advice being a start. Relying on hopelessly outdated (and underfunded) technology. Although the biggest kicker was when little old grannies suddenly realised their poll tax was the same as the Sultan of Brunei. At which point the OAP vote went into reverse rapidly. As did Thatchers reputation and indeed job. She was gone in months.

I was actually liable for the poll tax as an adult with a flat. That's how old I am.
"We won't pay the poll tax" - to the tune of the Conga.

I took part in softer protests. Every single instalment was late and needed to be resubmitted for whatever reason (I know councils tried to do deals with banks to be able to pay in unsigned cheques, but they woudldn't wear it). In theory they could have cancelled the instalment plan and insisted on an upfront payment, but they were swamped with paperwork. I can't remember where I read it now, but I know it was the sort of thing the CIA was fond of promoting (as Rob Newman highlighted in one of his shows) so it was most likely a 'zine. Which will pile on the years for more readers

My takeaway message was a friend receiving their demand in a name they only ever used once - on the 1991 census. I've never trusted them since, and was very wary of the last census with it's creeping intrusion.

(Fond memories of the DGR "middle initial trick" where a middle initial was supplied to various organisations to monitor the way information was bought and sold. Can be updated for emails ....)

The poll tax was a rare example of the responsible party being completely obvious, regardless of media spin
and millions of people suddenly having to pay large amounts of money

Thus far, what Brexit has cost the country is not obvious to the average person, who doesn't read analysis on Westministenders or elsewhere.

The big difference between the British and French public:
The British are far more deferential to the ruling class

Even now, to avoid rebellion against them, the British ruling class have cleverly conned most of the country,
and pushed the blame for their disasters onto a mythical "mc elite" - who read books.

We are being led by the same ruling class as always
mostly the same expensive centuries-old schools
They just switched slogans for the plebs

Anti Poll tax marches were the first ones I went on. There wasn't any rioting in my town though!

I may well have been in Trafalgar Square and have had a far better knowledge of the local alleyways than the drafted in Police.

Some of the police tactics that day were brutal.

Some of the police tactics that day were brutal.

And before. And after. Part of my memories are the late 70s anti-nazi rallies (I didn't go, but they were covered in the music press that I did read ... ). There was a massive demo in Southall (next door to Harrow) and the police killed a protester: Blair Peach

I bet that stays with you Pesty!

Quite a history of the state usuing brutality when threatened, to beat down dissent and keep order,

e.g. I remember Orgreave - I wasn't there, but I was shocked at the way it was being reported, compared to even the limited TV clips

and of course what is probably the testbed for keeping down a rebellious population: NI

with Bloody Sunday and countless less publicised slaughter, internment, the 5 techniques aka torture / brutality according to the ECHR....

Those "5 techniques" were reportedly originally developed to maintain order on the mainland, in the event of a General Strike and mass organised civil disobedience

This is what was getting to me in my sitting in the dark early morning rant. People got out for the Poll Tax which was a walk in the park compared with potential ramifications of No Deal Brexit. Why are we not out in the streets? I emailed the PV campaign suggesting they organise a peaceful protest day against No Deal across the whole country given Tusk pointed out no political appetite for remain. But now the new talk of WA plus PV will make them want to focus on that I guess,

Ah, I'd forgotten Blair Peach

A New Zealander, but who was unusually counted as furrin, because he was protesting against the state

Quite a history of the state usuing brutality when threatened, to beat down dissent and keep order,

From the Peasants revolt onward (although admittedly, the Peasants weren't very well behaved).

Peterloo ?

Didn't Churchill point the troops at Welsh miners ?

It never ceases to amaze me how naive people can be, just because we learned to call policemen "bobbies".

It's also arguable that "The Sweeney" not only acclimatised us to police brutality, but led to us expecting it.