Westministenders: A Special Place in Hell

[RedToothBrush]

A quick start to a new thread (as I've not been paying attention this evening!).

May is looking to ditch the Malthouse Compromise. Cos its so rubbish.

The ERG look like they are splitting over it anyway.

Up to sixty Labour MPs could back the WA.

Half the ERG plus Labour Leave Rebels could be enough to get the WA over the line.

Donald Tusk, makes controversial comment by more or less stating the obvious.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3492426-Westministenders-Abbreviation
Guide to Brexit Abbreviations and Terms

Post As I posted above, the Poll Tax caused clear and significant damage to millions;
they may not pay attention to the news, but they certainly did when they received a bill for hundreds

These were often people who had not paid any of the predecessor tax - the "rates" - and suddenly received a bill for each adult in the household

Brexit damage is far less obvious.

Also, most people at the preceding GE had no idea the Tories were going to replace the old rating system in this brutal way,
so didn't have the psychological block of being in denial of their own mistakes

Acknowledging that Brexit has wasted money already and is a potential disaster for the country
means admitting they were conned / screwed up when they voted

and of course, there was no furrin or external enemy to blame for the poll tax.
Only the Tories

Huge difference in psychological effect there

I spent my teens in South East London ....
New Cross, Deptford, Brixton ..... 1981 ..... remember
I was a University student in the mid 80's
The Miners Strike
the Battle of the BeanField
and then the Poll Tax

I never protested because I could have been deported on the spot

My generation protested because we thought we were the future

my kids generation know that they will be out numbered by the old
an absolute first for any species in any time in history
for decades
so they seethe in silence
but they ARE seething

I know you’re right BCF, just so frustrated and desperate to do something if you know what I mean. And breath..

Wait for more no deal stockpiling and call them the Food Protests. That'll focus the minds. If May thinks she can run down the clock to even mid-March, more people will start stockpiling.

Stockpiling in mid-March is called panic buying.

JiT is going to get a bit wobbly in the week before B-day

Well, yeah, but that's when it'll start in earnest if no deal is still an option.

If the young are being outnumbered by the old then perhaps we should drop medical research on prolonging life. That will balance the numbers and the young won't have to seethe so long about being outnumbered by the old as they themselves won't live so long.

s May trolling us remainers or is she just thick as two short planks?This particularly "I am not clear why you believe it would be preferable to seek a say in future EU trade deals rather than the ability to strike our own deals?"

She clearly didn't see the gem of the Faroe Islands deal Foxy caught for us that Red posted earlier, complete with dodgy contract with shaky knowledge of future laws to help out with paperwork problems (I'm sure someone who did the C&P on Seaborne's must have been involved there somewhere).

On the basis the US seems to able to switch between Republican and Democrat presidents with huge swings, I'm assuming (dangerous ....) that the average US voter is much less wedded to one party?
DGR

The swings have been pretty small a lot of the time.
Elections in the US are complicated by a few factors including the existence of the Electoral College - in the Trump Clinton race, Clinton won the popular vote by a nice margin but not the EC vote.
Then there was the hanging chad election that saw Dubya elevated to the White House by the Supreme Court.

There is a lot of anger that a few voters in a few counties in Ohio or Pennsylvania hold the future in their hands. The work of Robert Mercer and his daughter Rebekah (Cambridge Analytics) to identify and then push the buttons of the relatively small number of voters who would make the difference for Trump was highly significant. The Electoral College gives votes in some counties in some states much more weight than votes elsewhere.

Overall it's possible to identify major changes, as in the big switch of the South from the Democratic Party to the Republicans in the Nixon years. Abraham Lincoln was a Republican but Nixon's carefully coded racist messages with their appeal to the sense of grievance of the groups that saw their privileges end in the era of civil rights turned party brands on their heads.

It's also true that US elections tend to have relatively poor turnout. It's possible that different cohorts turn out to vote in different elections - disenchanted black voters registering and voting for Barack Obama, for instance, and angry white men emerging from their lairs to vote for Trump. The defeat of Mitt Romney has been ascribed to his complete lack of appeal in GOP redneck circles - a few million voters simply stayed home rather than voting for Obama.

Don't forget the treatment of the Hillsborough Disaster, BigChoc - it's a great example of the kneejerk brutality that lies under the seemingly smooth surface, with all the institutions of power combining to kick the victims in the teeth for decades after the event.