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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
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mixedabilitygroup · 01/02/2019 20:12

Talkin * I don't know what to say to your worried post up thread.

Truth is, this is the calm before the storm, and it is going to be awful.

If any one can get out I would urge them to do so.

Most men have never experienced what we do. Our knowledge of being under threat is valuable now.

Spudlet · 01/02/2019 20:17

jasjas Farmer Rich on my son's tractor video has some form of open slurry pit. Which he stirs with an auger on a tractor. In close-up. Accompanied by cheery music Confused

It's my son's favourite bit Envy

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 20:42

"slightly sweet smell" jas
Definitely not that
The smell was truly horrible and nearly overpowering

and as derxa calls 'em "ye olden days" were before health & safety
ponds and pools weren't covered and we roamed miles from age 5
It was more survival of the fittest - and luckiest

jasjas1973 · 01/02/2019 20:49

Don't worry, we are going back to the "good ole days"

You were v lucky!

mrslaughan · 01/02/2019 20:52

So if it's brown - it's a slurry put.
Silage is pickled grass - dark green- and v solid.

I live rurally and at the time of the campaign/referendum couldn't understand all these farmers promoting leave. I talked to a lot about it and not one came up with a rational argument- it was all fantasy. I'd like to know who sold them that fantasy?
Having grown up in NZ when subsidies were removed - I saw first hand the pain that caused........ and NZ farms have always been bigger and more efficient than here. Voting leave was always a death sentence farming as this country knows it......I suppose it's like the whole leave campaign- all just fantasy and dreams - nothing actually based in reality.

derxa · 01/02/2019 21:35

I live rurally and at the time of the campaign/referendum couldn't understand all these farmers promoting leave. I talked to a lot about it and not one came up with a rational argument- it was all fantasy. I'd like to know who sold them that fantasy?
Having grown up in NZ when subsidies were removed - I saw first hand the pain that caused........ and NZ farms have always been bigger and more efficient than here. Voting leave was always a death sentence farming as this country knows it......I suppose it's like the whole leave campaign- all just fantasy and dreams - nothing actually based in reality.
Much of what you say is offensive but I can't be bothered to argue. What's the point.

mybrainhurtsalot · 01/02/2019 22:52

Were farmers targeted with their own special leaflets? The Leave guys certainly changed their message a lot depending on who they were talking to as I imagine the leaflets below wouldn’t have gone down very well with your average Kipper.

“Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.

The official Out campaign is drawing up leaflets aimed at Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu speakers arguing that a British exit from the EU would help to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans into the UK — allowing more incomers from Commonwealth countries to take their place.”

www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

mybrainhurtsalot · 01/02/2019 22:57

A quick google shows they did:

www.nfuonline.com/vote-leave-ge/

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
SingingBabooshkaBadly · 02/02/2019 00:28

Ian Dunt writing in The Washington Post:

On Tuesday, British Prime Minister Theresa May demanded that her party reject her own Brexit plan so she could go back to negotiations with the European Union and dismantle an agreement that her government reached with the continent, on an impossibly fast timeline, during talks that have already been ruled out. On every level, it is an insane way to behave. The British government is actively sabotaging the work it has spent the past two years completing and then doing a victory dance.

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-collective-madness-behind-britains-latest-brexit-plan/2019/01/31/48d4d67e-2578-11e9-81fd-b7b05d5bed90_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5d765083247

Peregrina · 02/02/2019 01:02

I notice how George Eustace cites EEA countries when he talks about farming subsidies. Nothing there about crashing out and having no deals with anyone.

Maybe karma will get him and he will fall into a slurry pit. (DH did once - it was not nice at all.)

SusanWalker · 02/02/2019 02:11

Ahh George Useless as we like to call him here in his constituency.

I have never been able to get over him being one of the landlord MPs who voted against rented properties having to meet a certain standard. I saw him in town the morning after Grenfell and he was laughing and joking like he didn't have a care in the world.

Not to mention the exorbitant prices you have to pay to pick your own fruit on his family's farm.

mathanxiety · 02/02/2019 03:59

Bobby McDonagh@BobbyMcDonagh1
I assume there’s a one-eyed Brexit daruma doll waiting patiently somewhere in the Commission?

The way things are going, BigChoc, I suspect there are a few dolls with pins stuck in them.

icannotremember · 02/02/2019 09:53

The weird thing is, the more the rest of the world thinks of us as utterly mad and appallingly incompetent, the more the Brexiters seem to think we are admired. I do not know what it will take to change their thinking.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 10:32

I read that the problem with liquid manure stores overflowing relates to cattle famers, not sheep farmers,
but at least the media got the number of legs correct

Apileofballyhoo · 02/02/2019 10:39

Did anybody see anything about treating sewage or water? I saw something about 3 days worth of chemicals.

Is the gov really convinced the EU will back down?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 12:15

The govt is clutching at any straw, to avoid making choices

Because making choices dooms their careers, one way or another
and probably takes the Tory party down with them

lljkk · 02/02/2019 12:55

Did anyone else hear the Today Programme interview this morning, Humphries & Katarina Barley (German federal minister of justice). Interview starts just before 33 minutes until almost minute 40. So good I had to savour it again :). She's magnificent.

("You" = The UK) Some highlights:

"You should know what you want to do.... if you haven't got a clue, it doesn't really make sense [to ask to renegotiate]."

"If Britain refuses any sort of agreement, then there won't be any [agreement]."

JH: Time to figure out a technological solution is all the British govt is asking for.
"If I got it right, the Brexit was all about taking control... also includes the borders.... Yes that's right, [the EU works by only] controlling the external borders.... An exterior border without control cannot be accepted."

JH: Aren't German car-makers going to take UK's side?
KB: "That is a bit of wishful thinking, to be honest."

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 13:46

JH was out of his class by a mile

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 13:48

I must admit, I've been surprised since living in Germany at how capable the politicians here are
We have to figure out why Westminster gets the F stream

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2019 13:50

Current Westministenders thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3496313-Westminstenders-Waiting-for-Sanity?msgid=84637361#84637361

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