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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
DGRossetti · 01/02/2019 17:42

USA started out as a colony of Britain

Technically they're the descendants of traitors. But that doesn't get mentioned too often. The adage about history and winners ...

Satsumaeater · 01/02/2019 17:43

How could the result of the referendum ever be interpreted that two countries supposedly in a union of consent with England would rather dump England and remain with the EU

When the referendum legislation was going through parliament Alex Salmond moved an amendment that said that we would only leave the EU if each constituent part of the UK voted to leave (as opposed to the overall figure). David Lidington (who I actually rate as a politician, about the only one I've heard talking any sense whatsoever) said we don't need that because it's an advisory referendum only.

And then David Cameron put "we will implement what you decide" in that leaflet that was sent round to every household. Prat. As if he wasn't prat enough to call the referendum in the first place.

borntobequiet · 01/02/2019 17:44

Gibraltarwas known as a Crown Colony up to 1981, it’s not as though it’s some sort of slur. But just the sort of thing to get Brexiteers’ knickers in a twist and make them hot under the collar (reading that back it seems wrong somehow).

DGRossetti · 01/02/2019 17:50

Gibraltar was known as a Crown Colony up to 1981, it’s not as though it’s some sort of slur. But just the sort of thing to get Brexiteers’ knickers in a twist and make them hot under the collar

because it's easier than thinking - uses less calories.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 01/02/2019 18:14

Ah, the sunlit uplands of overflowing liquid manure stores...

Government officials are preparing to deal with “putrefying stockpiles” of rubbish in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to documents leaked to the Guardian.

If the UK leaves the EU on 29 March without a deal, export licences for millions of tonnes of waste will become invalid overnight. The Environment Agency (EA) officials said leaking stockpiles could cause pollution.

The EA is also concerned that if farmers cannot export beef and lamb a backlog of livestock on farms could cause liquid manure stores to overflow. A senior MP said the problems could cause a public health and environmental pollution emergency. An EA source said: “It could all get very ugly, very quickly.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/01/revealed-plan-to-deal-with-putrefying-stockpiles-of-rubbish-after-no-deal-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

LonelyandTiredandLow · 01/02/2019 18:19

Someone in the know must be reading this thread - I mentioned waste only a few days ago (more of the household rubbish variety but still)...

LonelyandTiredandLow · 01/02/2019 18:37

Possibly the most concerning thing is that I don't trust the government to be actually monitoring those sites and I don't trust them to tell the public if there is a threat to health.
How far we have come.

derxa · 01/02/2019 18:47

The EA is also concerned that if farmers cannot export beef and lamb a backlog of livestock on farms could cause liquid manure stores to overflow. A senior MP said the problems could cause a public health and environmental pollution emergency. An EA source said: “It could all get very ugly, very quickly.” Liquid manure stores from sheep farms?
Literally crap!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:10

We've read about plans to slaughter farm animals if there ia insufficient feed,
and / or if the EU 3rd country rules exclude UK meat exports for months, until we can get on all their meat databases again

now overflowing liquid manure ....

Poor bloody farmers if there is No Deal
Poor bloody JIT workers
Poor bloody UK

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:15

re Gibraltar:
I'm old enough for "Crown Colony" to be ingrained in my memory

Uk govt practice has always been to change only the name - not what is actually wrong - when something becomes embarassing

e.g. Long Kesh / Maze prison, Poll Tax / Community Charge, Windscale / Sellafield .....

derxa · 01/02/2019 19:23

Poor bloody farmers if there is No Deal This is true but sheep don't produce liquid manure.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:26

I had wondered if there manure was processed for some reason ! 😂

or if they had a weekend like my last, with D&V - I produced a lot
(sorry, TMI )

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:28

My childhood memories of visiting friends' farms was that they all stank of manure
It was very disappointing, but at least determined which career I didn't want

derxa · 01/02/2019 19:29

or if they had a weekend like my last, with D&V - I produced a lot
(sorry, TMI )
That's more like it! If sheep are producing liquid manure we'd be calling the vet and providing stool samples for them to diagnose. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:30

I fell in a silage pit when I was a small child - how my mum screamed when I got home
and when I was all grownup, my Irish wolfhound fell in one - took hours to clean her fur

Don't try that at home, folks ...

derxa · 01/02/2019 19:35

I fell in a silage pit Do you mean silage pit or slurry pit

mixedabilitygroup · 01/02/2019 19:42

Oh dear. Caroline Flint. £129,475,92 for staff costs. My oh my.
www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/doncaster-mps-claim-almost-half-a-million-pounds-in-costs-1-7456381

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 19:56

As a non-farmer, my mum said / shrieked I'd fallen in a silage pit
and years later my Irish wolfhound fell into something vers similar

Literally a pit of what seemed to be liquid manure, but at ground level, so I 7 she worked into it without realising

Ah the joys of being a free range child in 1960 but there were still no signs up or safety measures mid-80s when my Elsa fell in

mybrainhurtsalot · 01/02/2019 19:59

That article about Caroline Flint is from 2015! Her spend on staffing was quite a bit under the maximum allowed according to this report:

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7546/CBP-7546.pdf

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 20:00

Overpowering smell of manure, very lucky that even as I child it ws below shoulder height and late my wolfhound just powered her way out

Now tell me what I should be calling it, please derxa - just in case I fall into a German one !

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 20:01

cripes, my typos ! ConfusedBlush

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2019 20:04

Overpowering smell of excrement, thin but sticky dark brown liquid,
Just an unmarked pit in the ground
below shoulder height of 5-6 yr-old Big Choc
and my wolfhound powered her way out so I don't know if she swam or toughed bottom

mixedabilitygroup · 01/02/2019 20:07

That article about Caroline Flint is from 2015
Certainly is. £129,475,92 for staff costs is completely normal. I'm sure she's become a brexit er for the very best of reasons now. Hmm

derxa · 01/02/2019 20:08

It's a mystery Big Choc Grin Both were smelly and brown in ye olden days

jasjas1973 · 01/02/2019 20:10

Who the fuck has open access ground level slurry pits? extremely dangerous, even the gasses can kill.

Silage is just slightly fermented grass, should have a nice sweet smell.