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Brexit

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2019 23:50

Guess what folks, we get to do it all over again for Valentine's Day!

Bet you are all looking forward to that.

May has already been told by the EU its a non-starter, and with there being a vote scheduled again in a fortnight, there is little incentive for the EU to shift. And every incentive to just let us stew and think things over.

We are trying to renege on what we signed up to with the Withdrawal Agreement. Which only proves the EU needs the Backstop. Our credibility as a nation to do deals with is shot through the floor. With everyone but those who think they can stitch us up at least.

There is one key development with the latest vote:

The emergence of a new Brexit voting block within Labour, I believe led by Carole Flint. They are supporting Brexit and are prepared to vote with the government and against the Labour Whip.

This negates the Tory Rebel block, meaning May has a majority if she has the ERG on board - this being a big if, of course.

Many other potential rebels who threatened to quit from government, were detered from doing so by a promise from May and the promise that they had another show down on the 14th they could use to block No Deal.

In not quiting they are showing they are committed to some deal brokered by May and not an alternative by Parliament. This is important. There may be no realistic opportunity for anything else to be realistically be tabled by anyone else now.

I don't think they will quit now, if they can see a potential deal present itself.

The way forward now looks to be the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal only. Keep this in mind and in focus. This will become an increasing pressure and increasingly definitive. Revoke is still on the table, but I just can't see May doing it. Ever.

Whether May can get the EU to back down on the backstop seems unlikely. Its going to be more backwards and forwards on it. Before it becomes obvious its going nowhere. Its just theatre.

What the ERG do next is important. My best guess is they will split into No Deal Hardliners and last minute WA Compromisers. This will leave May short of a majority, but not as far as she has been especially with Labour resolve weakening. I think she may yet get her deal over the line with Labour support of some sort. Probably unofficial rather than direct from public instruction the front bench.

Here's the logic: Corbyn has said he will now discuss matter with her. He still wants to pin Brexit on her and destroy her, but he still wants Brexit and he still wants to keep the Labour Party together despite its differences over Brexit. All without making a clear Labour policy. How does he do this?

The same way he handled the Immigration Bill is possibly the best guess. Plus how can he stop his rebels...? {innocent face emojy} He gets to look tough against May outwardly and make lots of Remainy noises without more outward support for a particular policy. Those awful stupid Northerner MP (or MPs from backward towns if you live in the Metropolian North) who know nothing and screwed Remainia. It plays people off along splits in society, in the hope they don't notice Corbyn really orchestrated it. His MPs in leave areas get to look Leave without consequence, and if it all goes wrong he still get to pin it on May. Thus saving his marginals in both the North and the South 'cos those evil Tories'. And he does stop No Deal in the process. Yes, call me cynical, but thats how he could try and game it. Ultimately Corbyn and May do have certain aligned mutual interests, afterall.

And given there are few alternatives now there apart from Revoke or No Deal, once you think it through doesn't seem as far fetched as it initally sounds. Corbyn certainly seems to have form for it. His priorities are his Party, managing his north / south cultural divide and being seen to kick the Tories.

It'll go to the wire whatever happens, and its hard to see many ways out of this now. We are running out of time, opportunities and options. Of course, this works for May and has been her plan for some time. The question is merely, if she is serious about preventing no deal (and I believe she is) how she persuades either the ERG or Labour to back her.

Afterall, after the WA is done and dusted there is still everything to play for.

OP posts:
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Easterlywind · 31/01/2019 08:58

Do you think it's possible that JC agreed with TM that if they can't do better on the backstop (which they won't) then the amendment to the WA will be a CU for the whole of the UK? (I get the impression that would get through?).

I'm wondering this as I don't see why JC would have been so positive about their meeting otherwise

prettybird · 31/01/2019 09:05

All this speak of a backstop in the WA ... didn't the UK sign up to a separate backstop in Dec 2017 - the one where DD winked and said "We don't really mean it" ????

Indeed Confused

Spudlet · 31/01/2019 09:08

All this speak of a backstop in the WA ... didn't the UK sign up to a separate backstop in Dec 2017 - the one where DD winked and said "We don't really mean it" ????

Do you know, I think I need more faces and more palms. One set just isn't enough. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

How are we going to make any kind of trade deals with anyone after the rest of the world has watched this play out in front of them?

catdoctor · 31/01/2019 09:10

We have horses; currently we are choosing their position in the which pet gets eaten first list.

Main issue is shoes - ‘No foot, no horse’ An unshod horse won’t be going many miles on tarmac (though there are people who would disagree).
I suspect horse shoes are currently imported ready made from Eastern parts; our x-farrier was unusual in making his own but I don’t know the source of the steel.

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 09:11

I'm wondering this as I don't see why JC would have been so positive about their meeting otherwise

Alternatively, he thinks she's toast - which would cheer anyone up.

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 09:14

I suspect horse shoes are currently imported ready made from Eastern parts; our x-farrier was unusual in making his own but I don’t know the source of the steel.

I thought horse shoes were made to measure ... I can imagine billets of steel being imported, but they still need to to be formed to hoof, surely.

catdoctor · 31/01/2019 09:20

X-farrier made the shoes in his forge for our horses (knowing the size) and then did final fitting (hot shoeing) on site.
Current farrier (and this is the norm now) gets ready made shoes (standard sizes) and then hot shoes on site.
It’s adequate but not as good as the good old days; horses can have surprisingly odd ( as in different) shaped feet and newer system can’t allow for that so well.

prettybird · 31/01/2019 09:22

Well, Port Talbot has just fired up again and the Scottish Government helped to rescue the remaining steel works in Scotland (now owned by Liberty House).

Maybe they can be re-directed to produce steel for horse shoes Wink

LonelyandTiredandLow · 31/01/2019 09:23

I see Hunt just "admitted" UK may need more time. Why does he not see the EU27 don't want us voting in their elections? We've become the drunk Uncle at a party who refuses to go home Sad

LonelyandTiredandLow · 31/01/2019 09:25

From the Guardian - Hunt
"I think that depends on how long this process takes.

I think it is true that if we ended up approving a deal in the days before the 29th March, then we might need some extra time to pass critical legislation. But if we are able to make progress sooner then, that might not be necessary.

We can’t know at this stage exactly which of those scenarios would happen."

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 09:27

I didn't know that about horse shoes. You learn all sorts on this thread. Grin

umpteennamechanges · 31/01/2019 09:29

DH took a photo of this cartoon from the Evening Standard to send to me...it's on its side but you get the idea...

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
PerverseConverse · 31/01/2019 09:36

*All this speak of a backstop in the WA ... didn't the UK sign up to a separate backstop in Dec 2017 - the one where DD winked and said "We don't really mean it" ????

So that WA or no WA, the UK is already committed to some sort of backstop ?*

I'm confused (as usual) but does this mean that the backstop applies to the whole of the UK and not just NI? In which case the uk as a whole stays in the uk if they fail to make a deal by the end of the transition period?

derxa · 31/01/2019 09:36

Sorry about my outrage earlier. Anyway my DF did indeed plough the land using horses in the 20th century.

BiglyBadgers · 31/01/2019 09:49

Sorry about my outrage earlier. Anyway my DF did indeed plough the land using horses in the 20th century.

I'm sorry I jumped on it. It was unnecessary of me. I think everything is getting to everyone at the moment. Smile

I always forget how recent a lot of mechanisation was and find myself surprised to see photos of people ploughing with horses in the last century. The world changes so fast.

Sarahlou63 · 31/01/2019 09:52

@catdoctor - a good time to try going barefoot. Always look on the bright side Smile

TokyoSushi · 31/01/2019 09:53

@QueenieinFrance I can only see two things happening.
The HoC keeps voting against the WA and we get No Deal
The HoC shit itself and finally vote for the deal with the 11th hour.

Yes I agree, I think it will be the second one.

derxa · 31/01/2019 09:53

No problem Bigly We're all stressed out Sad

DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 09:56

Chimes with what I'm picking up from agencies. (And tx to PP for AerLingus links Grin )

www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/31/no_deal_brexit_smes/

The majority of trade group TechUK's smaller members haven't begun preparing for a no-deal Brexit, while others are being forced to renegotiate entire contracts with European partners or put UK hiring on ice, MPs were told this week.

(contd)

PCPlumsTruncheon · 31/01/2019 10:02

Why don’t we just go full paleo and go back to living in caves? We coped didn’t we?
It would be character building Hmm

catdoctor · 31/01/2019 10:09

Haha @Sarahlou63; my over emotional Danish warm blood just can’t cope if anything hurts his ickle feet.
Bloody Europeans - if we just had sensible British horses....

Lucygoeswalkies · 31/01/2019 10:12

Placing cats and dogs. Finally caught up (again). This whole situation is farcical beyond belief. I’m tempted to write an ‘SOS’ letter to the powers that be in Europe.

bellinisurge · 31/01/2019 10:16

This is all my cat is prepared to offer today.

Westminstenders: Waiting for a Valentines Miracle
DGRossetti · 31/01/2019 10:16

Why don’t we just go full paleo and go back to living in caves? We coped didn’t we?

Modern mouths aren't really suitable for a paleo diet.

#justsayin' Grin

PestymcPestFace · 31/01/2019 10:25

I love Waterford Whisperers waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/01/29/netflix-undecided-on-which-homicidal-raping-manics-to-glorify-next

However, some Brexitpleebs really do believe Cromwell was the sort of hero they need now.
twitter.com/eoinyk/status/1090658066180255744 original tweet since deleted.

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