The leavers lagoon - a thread for tranquility & optimism.

[surferjet]

Good morning brexiteers.

Well, we’re almost there ( although today will be interesting )
So if you’re not worried in the slightest about anything ( I’m not ) then jump into the pool of tranquility, & let the warm water of optimism & new beginnings wash over you.

Fully appreciate some remainers have real concerns, but in the interest of balance, plenty of us haven’t.

This thread is for us.

@Buteo . I am helping myself. Which is why I prep. And why I give advice to people on here about reasonable proportionate prepping.

@Buteo . I am helping myself. Which is why I prep. And why I give advice to people on here about reasonable proportionate prepping.

So good I said it twice.

I'm a remainer but I'm here for the bubbles.

bellini really? I don’t think I’ve heard you mention it before

I get the 'hobby' aspect of it all, if politics is your passion.

I think it's the attitude that leavers should spend equal time researching, and posting quite high level intellectual answers to the problems.

I voted leave. My experiences in life are what led me to my choice. I don't think being able to dissect the way EU laws are made, or be able to quote articles make my vote null and void.

Not sure you are making a case for Leave there @jollyoldsoul . A case for feelings, yes. But not actually causing national chaos to soothe them.

I think that's my point. I'm not trying to make a case 'for leave'. I, and many more leavers have given their reasons for our leave vote, but, it's never, ever enough. The 'whataboutery' knows literally no end with some remainers.

Part of me thinks that the very reason remainers can spend hours arguing the endless ways that leaving will effect things IS why I want to leave. No trade group should have grown into our systems in such an insidious and entrenched depth, that saying goodbye is so complicated.

Staying gives me the fear, not leaving.

If sitting in a corner grumbling suits you then fine. Don't flush us all away with you.

jollyoldsoul we have been assured by many, many leavers that they have done research, the have intellectual well researched arguments, they just don't want to share them.

You vote wasn't - obviously - null and void.

Remainers are looking for a reason for all this chaos. If a leaver can come on and say 'this reason' and we can go "I don't agree but there is some logic to it". At least there is some sense to this chaos.

Much of the frustration and anger comes from the total lack of logic and sense. Reasons that aren't reasons, reasons that are factually incorrect, responses that are based on bigotry.

We are in this mess for no good reason that's why people are angry.

If your own research can't give you any insight into why leavers want out....well, I doubt I can help.
It's probably a perspective thing. I'm never going to read about new laws from Brussels and be happy. There isn't one thing they have changed for us, for better or worse, that we couldn't have chosen do do, or not, ourselves. And, on top of that, get a 4 yearly chance to give the population a choice over the direction we take.

Well that's the point I have researched and there is nothing I have found that is a sufficiently good reason to cause this fiasco.

One one side of the scales we have financial issues, recession, misery and chaos.

On the other side we have 'I would feel a bit better"

It doesn't add up. Human misery, unemployment, recession vs 'I don't like the EU.'

There are no laws the U.K. couldn't have passed but there is lots of evidence to suggest we wouldn't have passed many of them.

We shouldn't be so tied by the EU that that wanting to go our own way can only be achieved via a fiasco.

And, I don't buy this notion that once the dear old EU has been pushed out of our politics, that the government is going to suddenly start shitting all over us. Social media is God now. If enough people don't like a thing, a petition is put out and it's then got to be discussed in parliament.
We can do that to our own politicians. We have next to zero power on the EU.

I too have read extensively on the subject and all of the impact is negative. If you actively look for brexit supporting academics/ economists thry dont say anything persuasive to mitigate the awfulness. Maybe its because i have a very intellectual and financial job that involves sifting agendas and bias and providing well supported facts that stand up to legal scrutiny. My bullshit filter prevents me from finding positive reports about brexit.

@jollyoldsoul and others id really love it if you could explain how Brexit is positive. Just give me your summary of how we will benefit. Point me to research as well if you like. Cheer me up! Thanks.

@jollyoldsoul , any other E.U. country would not have this problem leaving. It is only because of NI. Which the voters should have thought about when they were voting. Weirdly the voters in NI put aside tribal loyalties and voted Remain. Because they knew that the relative peace and prosperity they had was because of GFA. Which existed because we were both in the EU.
Happy to be corrected but I can't think of any other E.U. country which has this situation to consider- Gibraltar notwithstanding.

suddenly start shitting all over us

It's not sudden!

The demise of the post war consensus has seen a decline in rights.

One example. Zero hours contracts. 7 countries in the EU allow unregulated zero hours contracts.

We could ban them but we don't. U.K. governments shitting on workers isn't sudden but it is consistent and sustained.

I am disappointed in how many grown ups don't seem to have any idea how the EU works

This may be the first statement by a brexitoid that I agree with, although not for the reasons the pp had in mind.

Enjoy your cheap prosecco while it lasts, jacuzzi dwellers.

I would never go on to the Remainer threads and start disagreeing/aggravating etc. Mumsnet is such an echo chamber these days. Anyone who is a Tory and/or a Leaver gets shouted down, so much so that we don’t bother posting any more, then everyone is surprised when we are in fact the silent majority.

Anyone who is a Tory and/or a Leaver gets shouted down, so much so that we don’t bother posting any more, then everyone is surprised when we are in fact the silent majority

Bizarre comment when a very large number of remainers are conservative voters.

Silent majority?

Tories: When you team up with the dinosaur-deniers, maybe.
Leavers: Not for about 6 months according to every single poll.

Weird that asking someone why they believe something and then asking them again because they haven't answered equals being a meanie. if you express a view that people disagree with ..... they disagree with you. It's kind of how discussions work. Flouncing is obviously an option.

@cvcv I am sorry you feel people are being disagreeable. I would love to see things from your point of view. Mumsnet is such a useful source of information on all sorts of subjects. Please share some of the reasons why you welcome Brexit. I am not looking to tear you down. Im looking for the bright side in this. Thanks.

Its quite good that MPs have finally agreed what type of Brexit they will accept and we have a clear path forward which is reassuring. The EU now have a choice to make but I imagine they will drag it out for a while longer before we shake hands.

I don't get why people are so obsessed with the 'back stop'. Originally it was supposed to be an insurance policy. But now it is guaranteeing a no deal & no agreement over the border. So why are Europhiles insisting on something that is the opposite of an insurance policy?

{I would never go on to the Remainer threads and start disagreeing/aggravating etc.}
Why not? If you have a logical well thought out point for discussion it can be discussed. The fact that 'leavers' still have no clue about HOW they are going to achieve their nirvana is rather telling. in fact any sort of forward planning would be good to hear, from anybody.