Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminsterenders: Don't Panic. Really Don't Panic. Honestly Don't Panic.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2019 21:24

Brexit invoked the spirit of WWII's Churchill. Instead its shaping up to be more like Gallipolli...

...if Gallipolli had been instigated by Captain Mainwaring not Churchill.

The point has come where the exit button is being hit by businesses. Everywhere. In the absence of certainity they have no alternative. Its costing them a fortune already. Ford reported today that fortune was $800 billion. And amongst all the other problems widewide it was facing, which mean it is looking to cut costs, it looks grim for their 14,000 workers in the UK if we end up with no deal.

And still Esther does a video about how we should love WTO terms and a Tory MEP says Airbus's latest warnings are just Project Fear II. Its easy to say that if its not your job on the line I guess. Or your life.

And now the narrative of the prefect brexit has moved on. Again. At the start it was 'all the benefits of the EU minus migration, then 'a Norway style deal', then we went to 'Canada Plus is best, then 'lets no deal and go to WTO'. The latest is 'oh well we can ignore WTO rules at the start because they won't catch up with us for 18 months'. The absence of a plan and the hatred for the EU is growing in a worrying fashion, and there shouldn't be any doubt of where it seeks to go.

Jacob Rees-Mogg yesterday stated that May should prerogue parliament to ensure Brexit. Even though he is fully aware that the legislation even to enable WTO in the event of no deal is not in place. This is about as far removed from democracy as you can go, before you actively start openly advocating for its removal. This desire to close parliament had previously been expressed by one Tory MP and has since been repeated by David Jones MP and is liable to become the next big Brexiteer trope. Indeed reading twitter BEFORE JRM declaration, this view to shut down parliament was already being widely expressed.

Indeed one anonymous senior Tory MP has remarked this week; “If you knock on a door and they have books on their shelves, you can be pretty sure these days they’re not voting Tory”.

So people are stockpiling quietly. They are hoarding what medication they can. They are ridiculed in the media for it. And yet with government advice to business and the increasing awareness of supply chain problems, visa issues and the effect of Brexit on the GFA people are getting more and more concerned and nervous. Its almost as if government doesn't understand the mechanics of how the country functions.

People understand what is happening. They are the people who keep the production lines running and they are the people who ensure that people are fed and healthy and are kept safe. They aren't 'experts' just experts in their own lives and reality.

We move into next week with attempt two of May trying to get the WA through parliament. It still seems inconceivable she can at this stage. But who knows?

Parliament is moving to try and remove no deal from the table. The Cooper- Boles Amendment is the one to watch. Despite this stopping no deal is still beyond their control under certain circumstances. No deal happens on 29th March regardless of whether we are ready. Unless we extend or revoke, and extending is beyond the scope of our parliament alone. And extending still fails to remove the threat of no deal at a later stage. It merely prolongs the agony and uncertainty. We are in desparate need of a resolution which formerly ties us closely to the EU in whatever form that comes.

On the other hand, there are moves tonight for a Murrison II amendment to end the backstop that is being backed by both Graham Brady and close May ally and deal supporter Damien Green. This is in contrast to the EU who today have doubled down in saying the backstop is none negogiable and the WA will not be ratified by the EU if there are changes to the backstop. So it looks like we may be headed for a collision course on this, which could result in No Deal.

We are now also told from a senior government source, that Theresa May has had, in the last few days, "a lightbulb moment as to the impact of no-deal on British manufacturing." as if this is supposed to reassure us. This is 2 and a half years after she became Prime Minister.

Its only a matter of time before national anxieties across the country progress into full on outright panic. We are getting very close to that moment.

For our sanity and for all our futures we need this government to take back control from the ERG and their ilk who are leading us down a path to destruction. Before its too late.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
MissMalice · 24/01/2019 22:24

Feel free to share whatever you feel might bring balance, Louise.

bellinisurge · 24/01/2019 22:24

Does that count as balance @LouiseCollins28 ?

Greensleeves · 24/01/2019 22:25

where's that from, lonelyplanetmum?

it's chilling Sad

prettybird · 24/01/2019 22:25

I'd love to hear some real benefits for Brexit. It might be reassuring.

Ds tried and failed to come up with 3 incontestable benefits for the UK resulting from Brexit for a Politics tutorial. He did however come up with the other half: 3 benefits for the EU of the UK leaving.

Quietrebel · 24/01/2019 22:29

prettybird
I'd love to know if anyone at all managed to come up with 3 incontestable benefits. Would love to hear what the tutor said!

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 24/01/2019 22:30

This is interesting. The unlikely pairing of Heidi Allen and Frank Field touring food banks around the country to highlight the misery caused by Tory policies. Dest I wonder if they will visit yours?

“I have absolutely had enough,” Allen said, eyes reddening, in front of a group who spelled out how the reforms were turning the screw on some of the country’s poorest people. “So I asked Frank if he would join me on a tour of the UK to show the government this exists. Unless we blow the lid off it, my lot are not going to listen.”

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/24/ive-absolutely-had-enough-tory-mp-embarks-on-anti-austerity-tour?CMP=fb_gu

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 24/01/2019 22:33

There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside.
•David Davis (10 October 2016)

The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.
◦Michael Gove (9 April 2016)

There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
◦Boris Johnson (26 June 2016)

Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
◦John Redwood (17 July 2016)

The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
◦Liam Fox (20 July 2017)

louise I found some Brexiters voices for you. You know to balance the thread up a bit. Smile

Itssadsometimes · 24/01/2019 22:34

There are some real advantages.
Unfortunately they are not very important.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 24/01/2019 22:36

Meant to paste this from the article I linked to above. This is utterly shameful.

Visits to the poorest corners of Newcastle, Glasgow, Morecambe and Cornwall beckon, but they have started in London and Leicester, where on Thursday they heard stories of an illiterate man sanctioned so often under universal credit that he lives on £5 a week; a man so poor he sold all but the clothes he was wearing; and someone being told to walk 44 miles to attend a job interview, despite having had a stroke, to save the state the cost of a £15 bus ticket.

Somerville · 24/01/2019 22:37

I’m being taken away for the weekend imminently (I wonder how many threads I’ll miss?) I’ve even got to delete my news apps and Twitter for the weekend. Shock

If you see me on here tell me to chill the fuck out about Brexit and go be a good wee wifey, okay? (But PM me if anything truly staggering happens!)

LouiseCollins28 · 24/01/2019 22:38

@bellinisurge no it doesn’t and it is grossly disrespectful, not that I suppose people care about such things,

Right, balance....

For about that millionth time.....ALL that really needs saying about this is that if our parliamentarians wish to avert a “no deal” brexit, then all they have to do is vote for “Deal.” The sooner they realise that, the better.

The stuff about Gallipoli is just absurd, and in any case the principal failure there was that of one Sir Ian Hamilton, though Churchill was keen on the idea.

From Reds post it reads like Ford are saying Brexit (which has not happened yet) has already cost them $800 billion. Citation please.

Yvette Cooper is being simply being vexatious and is interested in just 2 things, 1) stopping Brexit and 2) becoming Labour leader, I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

This “no deal off the table” business she is pushing is nonsense, 1 becasue “no deal” is currently the law, and 2 because it would be a rubbish negotiation tactic.

greenelephantscarf · 24/01/2019 22:43

thanks red
I am panicking. and planing my escape from monkey island.

prettybird · 24/01/2019 22:43

Still no benefits, I see Hmm

KennDodd · 24/01/2019 22:46

'No Deal' is a fucking shit negotiating tactic in the first place. It's like saying 'give me this (impossible) thing I want or I'll shoot myself in the face and you'll get blood splattered all over your nice clothes '

Greensleeves · 24/01/2019 22:48

I don't understand why the Brexit headbangers keep trotting out this shit about "No Deal" being a negotiating tactic. It isn't. It's like a toddler threatening to make itself vomit.

LouiseCollins28 · 24/01/2019 22:49

Sorry, in what way is “no deal” impossible? Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t want a “no deal” Brexit, but it isn’t “impossible”

HesterThrale · 24/01/2019 22:51

Most people I know don't talk about Brexit. I used to think they had their heads in the sand... now I think it just makes them too anxious to talk about it.

I have tried hard to find some benefits of Brexit; some evidence that 'it'll be alright'. I've failed. I'd really like to be convinced with some good, incontestable facts, so that I can stop worrying so much.

I hope we get an extension to A50. Maybe in the extra time, more people would come to the conclusion that No Deal, or indeed any form of Brexit, would be damaging, and have a rethink.

And now I'm off to bed before QT. I don't think my blood pressure can stand much of this particular Tory Brexiteer.

LouiseCollins28 · 24/01/2019 22:58

3 incontestable benefits were asked for.

First, the elected politicians we put in the House of Commons will vote on what our laws will be, and if we don’t like what they do we can vote to remove them.

Second, the UK Supreme Court, with judges we appoint will become the highest legal authority in the country if we ensure there is no recourse to the ECJ

Third, outside the EU we are far less likely to be negatively affected by future EU policy decisions we don’t like. If we stay in, we might object to these but cannot prevent because of reduced veto powers and more use of Qualified Majority Voting.

Now I realise that some of the good “Remainer” folks of the Brexit board of MN are unlikely to accept all (any?) of these as benefits...but as far as I’m concerned I’ve given you what @prettybird asked for.

Thanks.

KennDodd · 24/01/2019 22:59

Sorry, in what way is “no deal” impossible

Hard Brexit and the GFA are fundamentally incompatible, leavers solutions depend on magical technology that doesn't exist.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 22:59

I don't know what "balance" there should be, when you say the alternatives are only:

a WA - which is much worse for trade than what we have
and says almost nothing about services, which are 80% of our economy.
Was it JRM who said even he would rather Remain than the WA ?

No Deal - which the Bank of England and some veteran Leave campaigners like R North, C Booker etc
say will be an economic catastrophe:
8% drop in GDP the first year, sharp rise in prices & unemployment, crash in sterling & house prices.

Do explain to us why either is an improvement on hat we had before ?

I rate Revoke as much better - I don't know if MPs would ever have the courage -
but at least it avoids further economic damage

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 23:02

Ah, just seen the benefits - all abstract
Funny, it's Remainers who are supposed to be the elite !

For someone who is now a JAM or a foodbank user, those "benefits" do fuck all to compensate for their lives being even tougher
can't eat 'em, can't wear 'em to keep warm, can't replace meds with 'em

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2019 23:03

Gallipoli's failure was set into its poor planning and lack of foresight. It had no regard for human life. No its might not have been purely the fault of Churchill but his support of it, certainly didn't stop it happening, did it? In hindsight the failures of Gallipoli were glaring from the outset.

Brexit is increasingly being framed as some sort of war against Europe and how we must liberate ourselves. Johnson has long modelled himself as a Churchillian figure and continues to do so.

Yet he is far more like Mainwaring.

He's not treating fit and healthy soldiers as the dispensable force to achieve his goals of patriotic sentiment. This is a game to him. Christ the man didn't know which to back so wrote out the pros and cons of leave and remain before deciding which to back! No, this is something that is happening on home soil. No Deal is something that firmly puts the vulnerable on the front line of that. And it feels like our defence from this force has more in common with the leadership of Captain flipping Mainwaring.

When I see the comments about there now being a high price to Brexit which is worth it, it makes my blood boil. Brexit was supposed to be the easiest thing since sliced bread. It's like the promises of how WW1 would be over by Christmas. It's the same sort of language and manipulation of the populace by the upper classes of government. Like those before them who were referred to unfavourably by the phrase 'lions led by donkeys'.

There is nothing noble about Brexit. It has none of the noble sentiments we associate with Churchill. It's the hopeless and mindless waste of youth and an entire generation.

If you don't like it described like that, tough.

As I've said before, I'm not adverse to a deal. My objects are to the ineptitude of government which could have and should have seen this coming and is still acting in a manner which panders to these utterly gross fuckwits who have no regard to the effect no deal would have on ordinary people.

And I'm damn well angry about that.

OP posts:
Mistigri · 24/01/2019 23:04

the elected politicians we put in the House of Commons will vote on what our laws will be

In this case I expect you're thrilled at the way that the HoC has been taking power back from a rudderless minority government in the last couple of weeks :)

Hazardswans · 24/01/2019 23:04

The second benefit of brexit was one of the reasons I voted remain.

Swipe left for the next trending thread