To ask why would anyone want no deal?

[guinea36]

Watching Sunday morning political shows. A few politicians suggesting they would prefer no deal if necessary. These people are presumably intelligent and educated
Yet they believe - although I struggle to see it - that ultimately it will be better for the country economically in the long run. Just wondering what the theory is behind this belief?

Agree with redandyellow

I think that when members of the public want No deal, in the vast majority of cases its because they don't understand (and often don't want to understand) what no deal really means, and they think that "WTO rules" means trading what you like, with you like, when you like with 0 tariffs.

We are not going to get a better deal outside the EU than we had as a member.
There are many people (some on this thread I suspect) who would label any deal worse than we had before as a "bad deal" and who believe No Deal is preferable. I can see their logic, but if they really understood the consequences of No Deal, and if worse-than-we-had-before is unacceptable, then they should have voted Remain!

There are a few people who know exactly what it means and still want it, but these are a very small minority who are well placed to make money from the resulting chaos.

I can understand (to some extent) the politicians who don't want it taken off the table... I think most of them don't want a no deal, but think it is necessary to pretend that they do as a negotiating tactic... That said, it seems like a daft strategy; the EU know as well as we do what the consequences will be. It is nothing like buying a used car, or a trinket from a market stall for eg (where neither side has info on the other sides needs).

Its a very, very dangerous game of brinksmanship and I am scared that we could end up with No Deal by accident (even though neither of the two negotiating sides really wants that).

The only benefit I can see of a no deal is that the Leavers and hard brexiteers will get what they want and will hopefully have to answer for what they have done. Any other outcome would give them someone else to blame for all the problems they have caused. Unfortunately, the collateral damage will be too high.

Plenty of people don’t want to be ruled by someone they can’t unseat, and with good reason.

Others don’t want free movement because their local services are struggling to cope.

Some don’t like what they see as foreign influences on a British way of life.

Some believe their earnings have fallen because of new arrivals.

Some feel less safe.

Lots of different reasons. At least if we can understand those reasons, we can start to address them.

Just telling people they are wrong and to shut up doesn’t work. It makes people dig their heels in.

What's the economic situation in Spain right now?
What is the youth unemployment?
I can imagine the average Joe on the street couldn't give a fig about brexit.
The eu is not a level playing field. Many counties are takers and don't pay as much in as others. This is why UK matters we are one of the stronger in all areas countries and we will still matter on every front when we are out.

This is why the eu should be giving us a bespoke deal.

None of the chief Brexiteers were talking about no deal during the referendum campaign. I don't believe that many people voted for it at all, and I think very few would choose it now if they fully understood the implications of what they were voting for.

Only twats (inc. Daily Mail readers) want a No Deal Brexit.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it's a ridiculous situation and we should cancel Brexit immediately.
I love all this 'EU can come crawling' nonsense.
Who the fuck do they think 'The EU' is? Some sci fi monster from another planet?
It's that level of pure ignorance about the union and how it operates that makes me despair. 😩
I do blame the Tories, partly because they've spent years ensuring our children are only schooled to pass pointless tests rather than actually educating them about the world we live in.

I can understand (to some extent) the politicians who don't want it taken off the table... I think most of them don't want a no deal, but think it is necessary to pretend that they do as a negotiating tactic... That said, it seems like a daft strategy; the EU know as well as we do what the consequences will be. It is nothing like buying a used car, or a trinket from a market stall for eg (where neither side has info on the other sides needs).

I agree with this - it's easy to understand that no deal has a psychological appeal, but the last point here is the important one. Not only does the EU know what the UK will lose if it walks away, but the EU is the party which controls exactly how bad "no deal" turns out to be. It's like walking away from a used car transaction when refusing to buy the car also results in you losing your existing car, and your bus pass, and potentially the use of your legs.

Just wondering what the theory is behind this belief?

Op whatever TV you were watching was a bit crap if the politician weren't asked to explain?

Or are you saying they did explain and you (and 99% of respondents o this thread) disagree?

This is why the eu should be giving us a bespoke deal.

They did. Parliament turned it down.

Agree squishy.

It is a dangerous game but this is what happens in all sorts of negotiations.
Does anyone really think business who trades with us across eu wants no deal.

You could say collectively we need them more etc but that doesn't matter to each individual company and trader. Mr champagnes profits go down, Mrs bmw profits plunge.. Do they care about who has more to loose... They will loose. As will their UK counterparts.

Business, money and livelihoods will win through they always do.

If I was in eu and in business with UK I'd be furious if eu leaders let UK crash out!

The EU have been consistent. The deal they offered is what they said they would offer.

During the referendum campaign we were told the EU were scared, the EU would come to heel, the EU were more worried than the U.K., the EU would change its mind etc.

The U.K. has negotiated wildly and the EU has remained consistent.

The U.K. has no clear vision of what it wants and what it is negotiating for. The EU has remained consistent.

Who do you think will blink first? Evidence from the last 2 years is that it undoubtedly will be the U.K.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it's a ridiculous situation and we should cancel Brexit immediately.

If this is true, then surely the Conservative government should never have held the referendum, and anyone who voted Tory in that election is to blame?

It is a dangerous game but this is what happens in all sorts of negotiations. Does anyone really think business who trades with us across eu wants no deal

So you don’t actually want no deal? But you think the E.U. is suddenly going to rewrite its four indivisible freedoms just for the U.K.?
It’s not going to happen. No deal absolutely will hurt the E.U. but it will hurt the U.K. far more.

I would rather we didn't crash out with a no-deal, but the deal on the table is shit. However, I am fairly relaxed about WTO, as we already trade with some of the biggest and emerging economies/countries in the world, including US, China, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand under WTO. It is worth looking up what the tariffs are as well. This link is quite interesting: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691

These are my thoughts on what I see. I have not said whether I personally want a no deal or not.

But what I see is that each individual business across the the eu isn't going to care how many of them will suffer compared to how many will suffer in the UK.

I never usually get involved with Brexit threads but I’m genuinely curious. I keep hearing people saying that ‘the EU have more to lose than we do’ and that they’ll ‘soon come crawling back’ etc if we stick to our guns re a no deal.

Can anyone who believes this please explain to me exactly how this works? I’m not being goady, I genuinely want to know what people mean by this. How do the EU have ‘so much more’ to lose than we do? Why would they ‘come crawling back’ if we left with no deal? What’s it to them?

But what I see is that each individual business across the the eu isn't going to care how many of them will suffer compared to how many will suffer in the UK.

Companies doing a lot of trade in goods across the UK/EU border are mostly larger businesses who understand the benefits of the single market and don't want to compromise this. German carmakers have been particularly clear about this.

@Burpsandfustles - If I was in eu and in business with UK I'd be furious if eu leaders let UK crash out!

It's not the EU "letting" the UK crash out. It's the UK who are refusing to recognise that they have a legally binding international agreement that requires the backstop if they can't come up with an agreement that avoids a British border on the island of Ireland. The EU has offered a good deal, within the constraints of the 4 freedoms and the GFA. The UK have no idea what they want and have been incapable of saying anything but NO. The DUP have obviously taught them well.

Throughout the referendum campaign we were assured the EU 'would come crawling to us'.

The EU has been consistent in their offer and it has not involved crawling.

Look at the evidence.

The fact is that a lot of these problems, for example what to do about the Irish border, were foreseen during the referendum campaign. But when they were brought up by the pro remain camp, the Brexit supporters shouted them down with the accusation of 'Project Fear'.

Now the Brexit supporters are being pushed into a corner because they're finding that the EU won't budge and give them the deal that they want. Hence the only option they have is a 'No Deal' Brexit, because they don't want the deal the EU is offering and they don't want to remain either.

There are two reasons why someone would want a no deal:

a) They stand to make a lot of money from the economic chaos that would follow through hedge funds etc. Think JRM, Nigel Farrage etc.

b) Because they're as thick as pig shit.

I will now await my public flogging...

AlwaysinMotion
Nice turn of phrase there

Yy mousse.

But do you think the eu has anything to loose at all.

Maybe they truly don't and this is why they have not budged.

@AlwaysInMotion totally agree, sometimes the stupid is so strong it burns!
Unfortunately I think we will drop out and when the shit hits the fan, they will still blame everyone else but themselves!