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Brexit

Westministenders: May dug a deep stinky hole and UK politics has tumbled in

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 15:17

May almost certainly won't resign even after this huge defeat.

She's survived umpteen other humiliating defeats.
Her record strongly suggests she'll cling on to office with broken fingernails until Brexit (or Revoke) happens

After the ERG failed to topple her last month, she can legally stay as Tory party leader at least until December.
Besides, would any of her likely successors as Tory Party leader - Leadsome, Boris, JRM, Gove - be any better ... or bring even worse horrors ?

Corbyn has called a No Confidence vote
NC debate to be held at 7pm today.

He'll lose, because the DUP and the ERG - who voted down her WA - have genuine Confidence in her, of course 🤔

The Labour Party conference agreed their policy would be to get a GE, but failing that to go for a PV.
However, Corbyns latest statement is still against a PV
Will he finally give in, or try to out-stubborn May ?

The HoC doesn't want No Deal - but can't yet agree what they do want.
if they and / or May don't specifically choose something else, then No Deal is what automatically happens

May had told the cabinet she'd just keep pushing the WA, but it's now a dead parrot of a WA.

So she's "reaching out" to the other parties whom she's rudely rejected for the last 2.5 years
Maybe ongoing cross-party talks will ignore her and succeed on agreeing a new approach
BUT
The EU have said they will only renegotiate if the UK drops some of its red lines
Otherwise it's either this unchange WA or No Deal

Many analysts think this impasse means that May will have to ask the EU for an A50 extension.
She keeps saying she won't delay Brexit - but after she became PM she kept denying she'd hold a GE, right up until she announced it.

EU officials have hinted they would extend until the end of June.
However, an extension would have to be unanimously approved.
Would any of the 27 countries veto, in exasperation with the UK's ridiculous performance the last 2 years ?

I know on Westministenders we're all exasperated with it !

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RedToothBrush · 16/01/2019 20:18

Nick Robinson @bbcnickrobinson
So @jeremycorbyn won’t talk unless No Deal is ‘off the table’ & won’t decide about a referendum but wants to keep it ‘on the table’. Perhaps it would help if he just got rid of the table?

BiglyBadgers · 16/01/2019 20:18

So as far as I can make out May as invited opposition leaders to have cross-party talks, but has ruled out any changes at all to her position before the talks have even started. So what does she plan on having talks about except to tell them they should all just agree with her because she is the best and stuff?

This is the negotiating strategy that failed to work with the EU and I really can't see it working now either. She really is incapable of working with other people.

OlennasWimple · 16/01/2019 20:19

Thanks BigChoc

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:21

If everything was going so well int he country, sunglasses we wouldn*t have had so many angry people pressing the red RESET button in 2016.

Well, if there is No Deal, the UK economy will crash over the cliff
So I'm not sure how much Corbyn could make things

He wants Brexit, because he sees it as his chance of power

imo, despite what he claims, he wants a No Deal Brexit, so that he comes to power after chaos & widespread civil disorder, so the people are ready for far more radical change than in the current Labour manifesto

Of course, that could just me being paranoid and seeing reds under the beds
(not being a Labour voter, ever)

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:22

No Deal Brexit is the BIG once in a century opportunity for either the far left or the far right to eventually take power,
a few years down the road

atm, I'm not sure which it will be
Could even be one after the other !

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BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:24

Corbyn is deliberately blocking all possible ways out of this mess, while trying to look reasonable

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borntobequiet · 16/01/2019 20:24

Corbyn is wise and cunning, a master of strategic planning. A Corbyn Government would deliver, in quick succession, a 20 Hour working week, £17.50 p/h minimum wage, the best health service in the world with immediate GP consultations and a maximum wait for major operations of 5 days.
Under Corbyn’s Labour, the education system would be rapidly and entirely reformed and would produce thousands of scientists, engineers, doctors and economists who would work tirelessly towards making the U.K. the best developed and healthiest country in the world.
Bins would be collected weekly by Labour councils and every household would have one of those green caddy things for teabags and eggshells.

I love and revere Corbyn.

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2019 20:24

Christopher Hope@christopherhope
LATEST on Brexit chaos: Jeremy Corbyn is now refusing to meet for substantive talks with Theresa May unless she takes "no deal" off the table.
But she can't. This game of brinkmanship starts tonight. At stake is the future of this country. #Brexit

Ta1kinPeace · 16/01/2019 20:24

I'm struggling to decide which of them makes me angrier
May or Corbyn

TatianaLarina · 16/01/2019 20:25

I rather agree with holding off on a PV for the moment.

I want HoC to work on taking No Deal off the table - as they are - currently refusing to work with May unless she does.

Jeremy Hunt has basically admitted HoC has the power to do this now. We all know there’s a majority against it.

Once it’s off the table in Parl there’s no reason to put it on a PV.

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2019 20:26

Don't forget potholes. Potholes will magically disappear in fairy dust over night whilst you sleep. All you have to do is believe in Corbyn. And that women have willies.

MissMalice · 16/01/2019 20:26

I’m not a Labour fan either. Have been impressed by some of their MPs but feel hugely let down by Corbyn.

TatianaLarina · 16/01/2019 20:27

I think Corbyn is right for once, if the other major parties refuse to engage with May over No Deal she is stuck.

I suspect Sturgeon and Cable and Starmer ar behind this I doubt Corbyn would have been this decisive on his own.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/01/2019 20:27

At the end of the day they could agree the format/ panel/ channel for a couple of hours TV debate.

So this isn't really going anywhere is it?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:28

bigly from reports of how she acts at EU summits, her idea of negotiating is to waffle about demanding they offer her a deal, without saying what she wants
and then haranguing them for not giving her anything.

She thinks not telling the other side what she wants and what she is prepared to offer in return is cleverly keeping her cards to her chest.

In reality, it just means the other sidie are baffled and noone can negotiate properly with her

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lonelyplanetmum · 16/01/2019 20:28

Could Not .
^
Typo but you get the gist.^

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:29

Sssh, born 😂
The Brexit Tory lurkers will believe you mean that !

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MissMalice · 16/01/2019 20:29

May cannot go on and on about protecting our union AND stand by no deal. The two are mutually exclusive.

RedToothBrush · 16/01/2019 20:29

Amber Rudd @amberruddhr
🗣 Our priority is to find a negotiated settlement and we are determined to do so.
🗣 Jeremy Corbyn is already disrupting and compromising talks. He is acting in bad faith.
🗣 As Conservatives we must negotiate a deal that embraces all views and find where the majority is.

What a surprise...

Ta1kinPeace · 16/01/2019 20:29

I presume the next deadline is the Grieve 3 day amendment ....
is that Friday ?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:30

red disappearing potholes I can accept
But Labour's belief that women can have willies is another big reason I can't vote for them

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sunglasses123 · 16/01/2019 20:30

There are some heavy hitters on both sides. Why didn’t a cross party group get set up two years ago. The UK could have wiped the floor with Junker et al. I include Nigel Farage in this as well. He is a great debator. Instead you have Corbyn and Macdonnell trying to put the boot in at every opportunity desperate for a GE (which hopefully they would lose). Or we would get another hung parliament.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/01/2019 20:31

Anyway won't refusing to discuss the no deal we are currently plummeting towards lose him Labour leave voters? There must be a few 100s of thousands if not millions of Labour no dealers who he has now alienated?

TatianaLarina · 16/01/2019 20:33

If he approves No Deal he loses all his Remain and soft Brexit voters.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2019 20:33

Corbyn actually is right that No Deal must be off the table
But it's NOT a concession May can accept as a precondition

Even if the few comparatively sane Cabinet ministers are prepared to persuade her to publicly rule out No Deal,
they'll want some assurances of help from Corbyn in return

This is something that has to be negotiated over the next few days; in practical Tory politics, it can't be a precondition.

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