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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

OP posts:
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Motheroffourdragons · 15/01/2019 14:31

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:31

Lies and playing with fire:

The Irish Border@BorderIrish

Arlene Foster says there was never a hard border.
That’s wrong.
There was.
....
Brexit is now so weird that the leader of DUP is gaslighting the Troubles

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:33

Aha, that's where you're going wrong, mother:

Who would describe May as a "normal human being"
doubtful sometimes even without the adjective

Motheroffourdragons · 15/01/2019 14:34

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 14:38

I'm always impresed by the speeches the SNP make

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:40

the NI independent Lady Hermon is a good sort, too:
(and shame on Labour here)

John Rentoull@JohnRentoul*

Lady Hermon, NI ind unionist, takes @NickTorfaenMPP^ to task for disrespecting the Good Friday agreement;
awkward tightrope for Labour^

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 14:41

I don’t think May would ever resign off her own bat. But she might be strong armed behind closed doors.

If any cross party talks do emerge from this - I would personally refuse to work with May if I were non Tory MPs. She’s shown herself to be totally untrustworthy, tyrannical, unable to work with other people, and worst of all, stupid.

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 14:45

If any cross party talks do emerge from this

But why should they ? Corbyn would probably need holding back. But I can see a lot of Labour MPs simply refusing to progress a clearly unwanted Brexit.

There's also the matter of lifelong socialists seeing the Labour Party cosying up to the Tories ... rather makes the struggles of the 80s look a bit wasted now.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:45

Problem is, all her likely successors, going by that poll of Tory MPs, are even worse
Hardcore hard right brexiters

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 14:46

With tonight’s meaningful vote unlikely to pass, a no-deal Brexit is becoming more likely

www.newstatesman.com/tonight-brexit-vote-today-no-deal-theresa-may-withdrawal-agreement-second-referendum

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 14:51

But why should they

There’s no reason why they should.

I wouldn’t personally work with May or any of the headbangers. Or Corbyn for that matter.

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 14:52

{I hope someone has informed the EU that the UK is now going back to the beginning, to decide what it actually wants 🤔}
Truckloads of alcohol and popcorn seen arriving in Brussels.
I thought Mrs May was a Furby a while back, but they have batteries and with a bit of fumbling (oo err!) can be switched off.
No, she is a Weeble. They don't have batteries.

nicoala1 · 15/01/2019 14:55

Did anyone see Sopie in' t Weld interviewed on C4 news last night. (Dutch MEP).

OMG she has nailed it for sure.

Watch from 27.30. And just read the comments....

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=-WxqBgjwe08

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 14:57

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3480053-Westminstenders-Plan-B-is-Plan-A-again?watched=1
And another one.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 14:58

.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Loletta · 15/01/2019 15:41

nicola
Yes! I saw her both on Channel
4 and later on Newsmight. I swear as I was hearing what she has to say, I was thinking "this what RTB, LeClercs, BCF say on the Westminster ers threads al the time"!

nicoala1 · 15/01/2019 15:59

Cheers Loletta. I thought she was great, right up to the rolling of her eyeballs in complete frustration!

Peregrina · 15/01/2019 16:08

There's also the matter of lifelong socialists seeing the Labour Party cosying up to the Tories ...

People haven't forgiven the LibDems for going into Coalition with the Tories, even though the Tories did them over good and proper. How is lifelong socialists seeing the Labour leadership happily fall in with the Tories without getting anything in return going to be perceived?

Dongdingdong · 15/01/2019 16:12

People haven't forgiven the LibDems for going into Coalition with the Tories, even though the Tories did them over good and proper.

To be fair I think the LibDems did themselves over good and proper. Tuition fees, anyone?

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 16:15

nicoala1
Thanks
I copied it onto the 'new' Westminsterenders thread as it is brilliant and acts as a steadying influence, more gravitas than almost all of the UK gov.

Dongdingdong · 15/01/2019 16:17

I feel so on edge and tense about the whole thing. I just want it to be over, for better or worse, so we know where we stand!

Peregrina · 15/01/2019 16:19

Tuition fees, anyone?

Isn't Brexit a much bigger issue than tuition fees? I felt let down by the LibDems going into coalition, and I wished they had had the guts to go for confidence and supply, but we now see how much worse the Tories can be, especially now they are being led by the batshit right.

But Corbyn going along with the Tories over Brexit?

Sostenueto · 15/01/2019 16:23

I hear that TMs plane is on standby ready to fly straight off th Brussels after the vote on sky TV a couple of hours ago...

Peregrina · 15/01/2019 16:25

Shouldn't May be looking for a country to offer her asylum?

Mind you, the way she has treated asylum seekers it would be good if no country felt able to offer it?

Dongdingdong · 15/01/2019 16:32

Peregrina - my point was relating to your post about the Lib Dems going into coalition with the Tories, in which you said the Tories "did them over good and proper". I'm saying that Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems made that (disastrous, IMO) choice themselves. They decided to get into bed with Cameron and co, it's not like anyone was holding a gun to their heads.

The Lib Dems are solely responsible for their decision-making on that front - it's not the Tories' fault or anybody else's.