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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/01/2019 10:29

Well done to mn for deleting the propaganda video on another thread.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 15/01/2019 10:31

How the hell is compromise possible? It's not going to happen.

Motheroffourdragons · 15/01/2019 10:36

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 15/01/2019 10:42

Is it new thread time soon Red? This one won’t last the day...

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 10:50

{GE is utter tripe indeed.}
Ah tripe, a delicacy about to become more widespread in post Brexit (hungry) Britain. Pigs heads and trotters.

{Well done to mn for deleting the propaganda video on another thread}
Shame, I was going to watch it tonight while waiting for the fiasco.

Hasenstein · 15/01/2019 11:24

What's not to like about tripe? I was brought up on thick-seam tripe & onions. Still, if no-one else likes it, that's one thing I won't have to stockpile!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 11:25

If there was a GE (very unlikely I know) there’s at least a chance of using the membership and momentum both who are predominantly remain to try and change the mind of the Labour from bench that’s my hope any way

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 11:29

Another GE that Corbyn loses may prompt a leadership challenge that it may be feasible to win this time.

A challenger would need to secure 20% of the party's backing for their own campaign, run against C and win.

Holidayshopping · 15/01/2019 11:32

I wonder what would happen if tonight Labour said ‘vote for us in a GE and we will revoke A50 and have a PV’?!

Thegirlinthefireplace · 15/01/2019 11:33

Labour would get my vote (pointless in my constituency though)

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 11:38

A challenger would need to secure 20% of the party's backing for their own campaign, run against C and win.

As long as the candidate has enough social democratic policies, and not the usual centrist/right of centre guff that his competitors come out with, then I’d happily vote for a change in leadership, I’m personally not really a fan of a PV though don’t see how the next referendum could be made to be conducted legally unlike the last one

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 11:42

A GE would probably have a load of other 'stuff' on the manifesto which would be devisive. It is not just Brexit but the real causes of Brexit and it would have to be presented in a clear way and free of lies. No hope with that.

BiglyBadgers · 15/01/2019 11:43

My feeling, and this is purely the feels based on the Corbyn supporters I know with absolutely no statistical backing, is that if someone like Lammy stood for leadership they could pick up a lot of the discontented Corbyn remain voters and a chunk of those who never voted Corbyn as well.

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 11:52

I’d vote for Cooper, Lammy or Starmer off the top of my head. The real issue is finding a character with leadership capabilities who can actually provide proper opposition and could feasibly win an election. If Labour can’t get elected their policies will never come to pass.

I agree with you about PV. We haven’t got to the bottom of the corruption of the last. Any second vote would still be impacted by the propaganda of the first. We would have to watch more lies pumped out by the unscrupulous. Two wrongs can’t make a right.

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 11:53

Since the government has statisticians and planners working on all manner of things, I wonder what the projections for the number of deaths due to Brexit are?

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 11:54

That was to justanotherposter ^^

TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 11:56

Jolyon Maugham tweet:

The reason Theresa May will lose this evening is because Brexit has no mandate. Leave only 'won' by making contradictory promises to different groups. So there is no vision of Brexit that has more than minority support. And any crystallization of Brexit explodes its tensions.

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 12:03

Just watching the brexiteers having their conference. Same old arguments.

Arlene saying there won't be a hard border because there never has been one even when there were soldiers because even then they couldn't fully seal the border.

DD moaning that we have given away our negotiating power by agreeing to pay the £39 billion. Surely it was him that agreed to that?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 12:04

Out of the 3 you mentioned I’d vote for Lammy, reluctantly for Starmer nd couldn’t get behind Cooper last time let alone this time

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 12:09

A GE would probably have a load of other 'stuff' on the manifesto which would be divisive.

Someone (RTB ? BCF ?) mentioned the idea of a "coupon" election a few days back, for which there is historical (if not within memory) precedent. Basically a general election where parties address a single issue.

That said, it would be pretty shitty to have such a coupon election with Tories saying "we'll do Brexit" and Labour also saying "We'll do Brexit" which is probably what we'd end up with.

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 12:11

Tom Newton Dunn
Tom Newton Dunn
@tnewtondunn
·
5m
I hear the PM just told Cabinet she will push on with her Brexit deal, no matter the size of tonight's defeat, as "it’s the only option". A big push from Rudd/Clark/Gauke/Perry to open talks with moderate Labour MPs, but rejected by Hunt/Javid/Fox/Lewis/Truss/Williamson.

ElenadeClermont · 15/01/2019 12:12

From BTL in the Guardian:
We Aren't the World.
We hate the children
We are the ones who made a brexit vote so let's stop giving
There's a choice we're making
We're slitting our own throat
It's true we'll make a fascist dystopia, just you and me
www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/jan/15/david-squires-on-football-spying-and-neil-warnock-brexit-thoughts

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 12:15

I hear the PM just told Cabinet she will push on with her Brexit deal, no matter the size of tonight's defeat,

So how will that work then ? (Bearing in mind I suggested a while back that I suspected she'd just ignore the vote - or even the need for a vote).

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 12:15

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

I hear the PM just told Cabinet she will push on with her Brexit deal, no matter the size of tonight's defeat, as "it’s the only option".
A big push from Rudd/Clark/Gauke/Perry to open talks with moderate Labour MPs, but rejected by Hunt/Javid/Fox/Lewis/Truss/Williamson.

Also: Greg Clark pushed the PM hard to formally rule out No Deal if the vote is lost, citing the “devastating” effect it would have on the car industry.
She gave no firm reply.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 15/01/2019 12:16

Compromise. Fuck you

Yep