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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 12:17

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Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 12:19

The WA can't pass without the Hoc - and the HoL - approving it.

What May presumably means is that she will keep bringing the WA back to be voted on, possibly with csometic changes to the bill

Currently Berlin playing down the chances of the backstop being ended in any way
sounds like Varadkhar is not playing ball - or the whole story about Merkel agreeing to pressure him was another Downing St invention

Holidayshopping · 15/01/2019 12:20

I hear the PM just told Cabinet she will push on with her Brexit deal, no matter the size of tonight's defeat, as "it’s the only option".*

Why didn’t she just do the vote last month then?!

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 12:21

What May presumably means is that she will keep bringing the WA back to be voted on, possibly with csometic changes to the bill

Quite aside from the non-precedent for this, what cosmetic changes will persuade MPs that didn't vote for it. to then vote for it.

I know ... blue paper.

HesterThrale · 15/01/2019 12:32

So when she returns to the Commons on Monday with Plan B.... it will just be Plan A again?

We’re in trouble here.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 12:34

We really are heading into constitutional crisis territory here if she keeps going down this path or that’s how it feels anyway

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 12:35

David Harris@cellsatwork

At the heart of all the torment is this

  • if the UK does not like the PM's deal;
and if the UK does not have the will to to put a customs border in the Irish Sea; and if the UK does not have the will for No Deal
  • then the UK does not have the will to Brexit
TatianaLarina · 15/01/2019 12:38

Former Foreign Sec Boris Johnson tells the House of Commons in Meaningful Vote the public will conclude “there is a plot by the deep state to frustrate Brexit”.

Ffs.

Hazardswan · 15/01/2019 12:38

If she stays so one tracked MPs will have to take control surely? She's off her head of she just blindly continues.

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 12:38

{Quite aside from the non-precedent for this, what cosmetic changes will persuade MPs that didn't vote for it. to then vote for it.
I know ... blue paper.}
Loads of options: Comic sans, Portrait/landscape, many beautiful colours.
Maybe if the WA had been printed on cream paper rather than white, and in Landscape it would look better?

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 12:40

Sam Coates Times @samcoatestimes
Amendments NEW

Very significant names behind the Murrison amendment with expiry date on backstop

Graham Brady, Damian Green, Simon Hart, Rob Halfon amongst most eyecatching

Looks very like whips operation... you wouldn’t get such names without official sanction

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 12:42

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
So... latest intel on Murrison amendment. Suggestions from MP sources that #DUP could vote for it - would that give May some crumbs to take to Brussels as she goes again for negotiation/vote?

OP posts:
1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 12:43

The backstop is only necessary because the UK government have proven over the centuries to have untrustworthy elements and the EU is simply ensuring there will be no backsliding.

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 12:46

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Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
More absurdity in the Murrison amendment: It states the backstop would cease to hold in December 2022. That is actually the precise date at which it will come into force, because it's when the transition extension times out.
10:44 am · 15 Jan 2019 · TweetDeck
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Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
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It is tantamount to just getting rid of the backstop.
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
@IanDunt
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It is insane. And because it is insane, I expect it to be very popular with Tory MPs.
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
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Potentially disturbing outcome. Strong votes for it, and reduced majority on May deal defeat, would allow her to go back to Brussels with an impossible aim, and work down the clock a little further.
Henry Mance
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Murrison amendment actually specifies December 2021
Ian Dunt
Ian Dunt
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Ah says 22 in guardian piece. So even worse then.

Sostenueto · 15/01/2019 12:49

Elderly gentleman on TV this morning asked by interviewer why he voted to leave. His reply ' this country did not fight two world wars to preserve our sovereignty to lose it completely in 2024 when the EU decides to become a European state'........interesting reason.

Holidayshopping · 15/01/2019 12:52

So what would happen to the backstop when we got to the expiry date? Doesn’t this just delay the problem?

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 12:58

So what would happen to the backstop when we got to the expiry date?

As far as the EU is concerned: nothing. No country can set both sides of an agreement. The UK parliament isn't the boss of the EU.

Mistigri · 15/01/2019 13:02

So what would happen to the backstop when we got to the expiry date? Doesn’t this just delay the problem?

This is why there won't be an expiry date ....

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 13:02

The whole things a nonsense. It's only being added to encourage the brexiteers to vote for the deal. It's obvious it's not enforceable. If it passes with the WA are the EU going to sign the WA when we have put in law that we won't honour part of it? I don't think so.

David Allen Green is going to be in the remainiacs podcast this week.

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 13:04

In fact that's probably half the reason so the government can blame the collapse of the WA on the EU.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 15/01/2019 13:09

I've just read Bernie didn't select Morrison amendment

whymewhynow · 15/01/2019 13:09

Odd to see Nicholas Soames putting his name to Murrison.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 15/01/2019 13:09

Bercow, not Bernie. Sorry, autocorrect.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 15/01/2019 13:10

Ffs! Murrison

TokyoSushi · 15/01/2019 13:10

Have you seen that Bercow hasn't selected Murrison?

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