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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

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Thread gallery
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Thegirlinthefireplace · 15/01/2019 13:11

I have seen Tokyo but I was apparently unable to express it in any understandable way Confused

SusanWalker · 15/01/2019 13:15

Have put clean sheets in my bed and stolen DDs tv and put it in my room. All set for watching the vote later.

DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 13:16

My Labour MP gave a good speech yesterday. It would be a shame not to be able to vote for them, if Corbyns position remains unchanged.

whymewhynow · 15/01/2019 13:17

He has selected an amendment by Edward Leigh that puts a time limit on the Irish backstop (just been announced on WatO) so I'm not sure that Murrison adds very much. BBC correspondent says that Leigh has little chance of passing and the MV will be quite early as the amendments are all quite swift.

lonelyplanetmum · 15/01/2019 13:20

May telling the Cabinet she will push on with her Brexit deal, no matter the size of tonight's defeat, as "it’s the only option".

So without Parliamentary approval? At the outset I thought the ref was in reality a coup de deceit ( ie without the force). Now it's starting to sound more like it's moving towards a bog standard coup.
In situations like this don't we need to check who the military are likely to take instructions from? Who will they side with?

prettybird · 15/01/2019 13:22

Former Foreign Sec Boris Johnson tells the House of Commons in Meaningful Vote the public will conclude “there is a plot by the deep state to frustrate Brexit”.

There was indeed a plot - but by oligarchs and foreign leaders (and wannabe leaders) such as Mercer, Putin and Trump, to frustrate the EU using the UK as the patsy Angry. They did/do not have the best interests of either the EU or the UK at heart Angry

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 13:24

The HoC can add all the cake they wish to the WA
BUT
The EU will not accept a modified WA, certainly not one modified unilaterally by the UK

The original is the only one the E27 leaders have signed - and it has yet to go through the European parliament

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:25

4 amendments selected meaning vote about 8pm

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BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 13:26

lonely May's "pushing on with the WA" is not a coup

She will just keep putting it to the HoC, like a parent giving the same congealed porridge every meal to a fussy refuser.

She has no idea what else to do

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2019 13:27

If the HoC keep refusing to pass it, then unless she Revokes or asks for an extension,
it looks like automatic No Deal on 29 March

Dongdingdong · 15/01/2019 13:29

My new prediction is that Theresa May will be defeated today. The EU will then offer a legally binding time limit on the backstop just to get the whole thing done and dusted. TM will then bring the motion back to parliament and it will be approved.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:38

I'm out at the minute so not 100 per cent sure but it looked like Bercow DIDNT select the Murrison Amendment!!!! (the one about the exit from the backstop).

Controversial if that's correct

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RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:39

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
Wow. Speaker doesn’t pick the Murrison amendment. Another blow to May. This was meant to be the contours of plan B. Something to take to Brussels as a reason to give her more on the backstop

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RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:40

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
An MP texts me: ‘to give you an idea of divergent MPs' views - I’m running a sweepstake on majority of defeat later. Bets currently range from 75 to 217’

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1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 13:41

{To absolutely LOVE the new Gillette advert!! Outrage on Twitter.}
This on MN must surely be more important than this Brexit fiasco.
It gets equal prominence on MN.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:43

Adam Bienkov @adambienkov
Downing Street playing down he chances of the Murrison amendment being picked by the Speaker, due to lack of support in Commons. They're expecting very small number of amendments to be selected.

This is from an hour ago, so no 10 were expecting it, and perhaps not as controversial as its being framed. Also no Swire Amendment.

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DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 13:45

Is there precedent for a Groundhog day vote ? (Apart from the existential irony of MPs being allowed/forced to have as many votes as they like ?).

I can't see the EU shifting one iota on the backstop. Not in the legally binding bit anyway. It's one of their red lines. To shift would be to throw the RoI under the bus, which would be the end of the EU. Now that may be what the Brexiteers want, but I can't see 27 countries agreeing with them.

It's worth doing the presses job and remembering that the backstop was needed because of Theresa Mays own red-lines. If Brexiteers are unhappy with the need for fire extinguishers, they should have filled the R.Brexit with something other than hydrogen.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:46

Beth Rigby@bethrigby
Leigh 'begs' the government to consider whether it should accept his amendment: Cox says it doesn't line up with international obligations and so he cannot

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DGRossetti · 15/01/2019 13:48

ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE

icannotremember · 15/01/2019 13:48

to give you an idea of divergent MPs' views - I’m running a sweepstake on majority of defeat later. Bets currently range from 75 to 217

This reddit thread has a section in the comments where people are doing the same thing- some people think it will pass, among the majority who don't, answers are ranging from a defeat of 4 up to a defeath of 222.

RedToothBrush · 15/01/2019 13:51

Kevin Schofield@polhomeeditor
Theresa May nods as Geoffrey Cox says the Brexit deal will come back to the Commons "in much the same form with much the same content" if it's rejected tonight. Meet Plan B - the same as Plan A.

How very meaningful.

I do not put it past Bercow having something to say about that...

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MissMalice · 15/01/2019 13:52

How can they bring it back again? I thought it had to be different. This is just getting boring.

Holidayshopping · 15/01/2019 13:53

Does anyone think she might win tonight?

1tisILeClerc · 15/01/2019 13:54

{Meet Plan B - the same as Plan A.}
What is the next letter after Plan Z?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 15/01/2019 13:54

Jesus is Cox trying to filibuster this?