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Brexit

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2019 23:01

Tuesday is scheduled to be the date of the Withdrawal Agreement Vote.

The current expectation is it will fail to pass. Badly.

If this is the case then May will have to report to the HoC about what her Plan B is within 3 sitting days under Grieve IV - by the end of Monday 21st January (which was the original date that Grieve III set).

Its being reported that if it fails that May will make some sort of statement either late on Tuesday or Wednesday before flying to Brussels in order to try and calm the markets.

This weekend has been full of politicking to position to get the WA to pass. Some of this is to push those who think that May will revoke or extent which will endanger leaving and some of it is to push those who fear no deal. Nothing is likely to be exactly what it appears.

The feeling is that No10 is currently working more to keep the defeat as small as possible in order to keep alive the possibility of representing the WA to parliament at a later date.

This week has seen big announcements from the car industry; none of which have been unexpected and some of which were connected to technology change and were likely to have been an inevitability to some extent, but the timing the week before the vote should also focus some minds.

We've had the news that 4000 civil servants from the following departments - Defence, International Development, Work and Pensions and the Education department - being lined up to handle no deal brexit, with secondments of up to 6 months. (The idea that staff from W&P might be moved with all the problems with UC is mind boggling).

We've also had the rumour that May has spoken to the Tory MEPs to inform them that if there is a chance of extending a50 and this means the UK would take part in June's European Elections. Many of the newspapers have been reporting this weekend that there is a high chance that the UK will not leave the EU on the 29th March as scheduled leading to the pound rising to its highest level in 7 months.

Dominic Grieve has stated the following, and I think its worth keeping an eye on.

Jack Maidment @jrmaidment
Dominic Grieve: Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday.

"without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension because we would still be crashing out and that would have to be, I think, a top priority"

It has been somewhat misinterpreted in some quarters as Grieve suggesting we change the UK's exit date. Its not. Its a reference to how UK law has a date set in it, so even if we did get an extension UK law would in effect automatically exit us legally on a domestic level, even if on an international level we were still members. This creates a bit of an issue whereby parliament would have to vote to make this change somehow, which would need to be facilitated by the government in some way - which means coming from the PM which obviously will be somewhat problematic for the cohesiveness of the Tory Party.

Indeed The Sunday Telegraph is tonight reporting that the Tories are on the brink of an historic split, with Brexiteers and Remainers both threatening to 'torpedo the Government if they do not get their way on Brexit'.

Pro-EU Mps are claiming that a third of the Cabinet would resign if May pursued a no deal Brexit and that several senior minsters want May to immediately open talks with Labour MPs about a compromise involving a permanent customs union if her deal is defeated by a large margin.

Steve Baker is warning that this would risk a split in the party 'akin to the schism prompted by Robert Peel's repeal of the corn laws'. And Bernard Jenkin has said that any attempt to change the exit date or strike a deal with the Labour Party would destroy the Conservative Party. For once, its hard to argue with either of them and say they are completely wrong.

Of course this also doesn't seem to fit with Labour's plans. The Observer is reporting that Corbyn plans to table a dramatic vote of no confidence in May as early as Tuesday evening in an attempt to force a GE. This is, to put it bluntly, fucking ridiculous. He would only need 7 Tory / DUP rebels (on top of the rest of the house) or some abstainers but it remains to be seen who these would be. A three line whip for Tuesday night, including for all unwell MPs is in effect for Labour.

Both the Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times lead with similar stories about changing the rules of the HoC in order to effectively sideline the PM. The Mail refers to it as a plot between Grieve and Bercow, but the Times is much more broad stating:

A cross party group of senior backbenchers - including former Tory Ministers - plan what one senior figure branded a "very British coup" if May loses the crunch vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday

At least two groups of rebel MPs are plotting to change Commons rules so motions proposed by backbenchers take precedence over government business, upending the centuries old relationship between executive and legislature.

Downing Street believe that would enable MPs to suspend article 50, putting Brexit on hold, and could even lead to the referendum result being overturned - a move that would plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.

The funny thing about all this news is at no point have I seen discussed whether we could extend a50 as it stands - as thats down to the EU. And at no point have I seen anything about how the EU would facilitate ratifying the WA at the eleventh hour if we have to go for round 2.

Indeed the growing feeling does seem to be largely that one way or another the WA is dead in the water if it has a large defeat. The question is perhaps now, what will the ERG do in this context? Will they plough on trying to persue No Deal? Because that too would surely lead to a split in the Tory party in some way.

A cross party group referred to the 'Norway Group' (Boles, Letwin, Morgan and Kinock) are apparently planning according to Boles, to make No Deal illegal.

So to put it mildly, next week is looking absoluetely mind blowingly crazy and likely to be explosive in some way or another.

And finally. Here's a handy tool for you.
How Many Days Until Brexit Timer

OP posts:
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borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 08:16

Thanks again Red.
I always thought that Brexit would destroy the Conservative party. If it destroys Labour as well, that’s a bonus. Always look on the bright side.
I notice a story on the Telegraph front page saying extra meals for the hospitalised elderly helps them get better. Well, that’s going to happen if there are food shortages, isn’t it...and if there are enough staff to find time to help them eat the extra meals once kind Irena has gone back to Eastern Europe. There’s also a transgender kids as young as 10 changing their names by deed poll to illustrate the actual batshittery of the times we live in.
Bring on the Parliamentary earthquake. In reality, and however dangerous, a second referendum, decreed by Parliament, properly overseen by a referendum committee and conducted under very tight rules, is probably the only way now to resolve the issue - though the WA passing might be the least damaging for all concerned.

borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 08:20

Should have said that the reason I’d like both main parties destroyed is that they are no longer fit for even their own purposes. I long for proportional representation, a broadly centrist government, clarity, communication and compromise. (I’m a big fan of the rule of three, you notice.)

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 08:41

The hardcore rightwing Brexiters usually think that both the main parties are too centrist

  • not just their own, which would be understandable, but that Labour is too ... some of them manage at the same time to proclaim Corbyn as the antichrist

James Fenton, who posted that manifesto, is a BAFTA-winning writer for TV
His thread on it sounds deadly serious on his side, but he could have been given a spoof sheet of paper

MangoSplit · 13/01/2019 08:42

Place marking

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2019 08:46

Jack Maidment@jrmaidment

Jeremy Hunt telling MPs that Lassie "broke free, without any kind of referendum" will surely be remembered as the moment he secured his position alongside Britain's political greats.
🤦🏻‍♀️ 😂😂

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 08:54

I think it was another Brexit related thread where there was a discussion about crap analogies, but Lassie as a metaphor for Brexit beats everything.

Mrsr8 · 13/01/2019 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Motheroffourdragons · 13/01/2019 08:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ to protect the privacy of the user.

Buteo · 13/01/2019 09:03

For anyone on Twitter, #tomorrowspaperstoday gives you the front pages that you can zoom in on to read.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 13/01/2019 09:07

Cheers Red. Hang on to your seats folks.

Buteo · 13/01/2019 09:08

Not sure if this was posted on the last thread (it moved too fast for me) but @jonworth has created his own flow chart on The Meaningful Vote.

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Efferlunt · 13/01/2019 09:08

Interesting article in the NY times that suggests the crisis in the us and uk atm is partly caused by fptp systems.

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2019 09:10

One for the German Speakers in particular (over to you BigChoc)

David Phinnemore @Dphinnemore
Germany's Europe Minister, Roth, clear: Withdrawal Agreement binds UK under international law and so a vote of UK parliament could not be used to prevent Northern Ireland backstop, if required, coming into force; would consider Article 50 extension

amp.welt.de/newsticker/news1/article186972072/Brexit-Roth-Britisches-Parlament-kann-Nordirland-Notloesung-nicht-einseitig-kippen.html?wtmc=socialmedia.twitter.shared.web&__twitter_impression=true

Roth zeigte sich flexibel, was eine mögliche Verlängerung der Austrittsfrist über den 29. März hinaus angeht. Zwar hat die Regierung May das bisher ausgeschlossen, doch dürfte selbst bei einer Zustimmung des Parlaments zum Austrittsabkommen die Zeit nicht reichen, alle notwendigen Gesetze in London zu beschließen. Das gilt erst recht, wenn es zu einem Rücktritt Mays nach einer schweren Niederlage im Parlament, zu Neuwahlen oder sogar zu einem weiteren Referendum käme.

Sollte die britische Regierung eine Verlängerung beantragen, "werden wir damit ganz verantwortungsvoll umgehen", sagte Roth der "FAS". Es stellten sich dann allerdings "ziemlich komplizierte Fragen, etwa die nach der Teilnahme Großbritanniens an der Europawahl" im Mai.

Google translate tells me he says there is flexibility over an A50 extension but it's complicated and there is the issue of the European Parliamentary Elections.

Which is much more promising that I might have hoped, but it depends on what the other EU27 think too.

An A50 extension is absolutely not my favoured option but on the other hand anything that's not no deal is preferable.

OP posts:
Tanith · 13/01/2019 09:14

Is the Yellow vest thing real or a spoof?

I saw them referred to as “Jacket Potatoes” on Twitter. Seemed far more apt.

prettybird · 13/01/2019 09:15

Brexit: 'Basic questions unanswered' on Swiss trade deal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46854002

Sounds a bit like the non answers given to Joanna Cherry Hmm. The Government seems to think that "Trust us, we're the Government" is sufficient reassurance Confused. Along the lines of "Trust me, I'm a politician" Grin

Plaice Cat King - along with a reassuring photo of the gorgeous boy that the two brothers replaced (such a favourite that one cat couldn't replace him after he was killed in a hit and run Sad but two come close Wink)

Westminstenders: The WA Vote ReDux
Tanith · 13/01/2019 09:17

Jeremy Hunt telling MPs that Lassie "broke free, without any kind of referendum" will surely be remembered as the moment he secured his position alongside Britain's political greats.

AKA Jim Hacker.

thecatfromjapan · 13/01/2019 09:18

.

1tisILeClerc · 13/01/2019 09:21

{iirc, about 85% of British lamb is exported to the EU}
So, if the UK has crashed out in march, indeed the value of lamb will fall drastically but why slaughter them at a time when food supplies are going to get a bit crazy?
OK they would fetch nothing sold abroad but popping them into a freezer (if only there were some in the UK) and selling to the UK (if you have no other food, lamb would be great) and it would be a financial exercise only to compensate farmers (who would otherwise go on benefits of some sort) or am I being a bit too logical and practical here?

Moussemoose · 13/01/2019 09:22

I want a yellow vest emoticon.

SusanWalker · 13/01/2019 09:24

That yellow jacket list is odd. I have a lexiter on my Facebook timeline who posted in support of the yellow jackets the other day.

JSmitty · 13/01/2019 09:25

A first sight of Plan B in today's Express?

May claims that Parliament voting for something she doesn't like is the end of democracy, the betrayal of the people, etc.

She lost her majority in a self-inflicted defeat and now depends for her survival on the corrupt, homophobic Paisleyite dinosaur-denyers, and now this.

Corbyn meanwhile tends his allotment.

Bring on the backbench coup, I say.

borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 09:27

The yellow jacket list shows how intellectually damaging the habitual use of multiple question and exclamation marks can be.

Mrsr8 · 13/01/2019 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 09:35

Henry IV of France (“Good King Henry”), 14th/15th centuries:
“A chicken in every pot”.
M Gove (“Govey Govey Govey”) DEFRA 21st century
“A leg of lamb in every freezer” (if you can afford to run a freezer)

borntobequiet · 13/01/2019 09:37

Oops! Henry IV was C16-17, silly me.