Westministenders: Teetering on the edge

[RedToothBrush]

12 weeks to go.

There is rising confidence in the Extreme Brexiteer camp as well as open comments about how they can deliberately force through No Deal. Remember No Deal is the default. Every political crisis that takes up time makes no deal more likely and the ERG can just be obstructive to facilitate a political crisis. Parliament DO NOT have the ultimate power to stop Brexit - unless the government effectively allow an option to do so. And there is no sign May will let this ever happen. No Deal takes us back to pre-industrial revolution Britain in many social and economic ways. Which will please Jacob Rees-Mogg no end.

No Deal prep is now costing us a fortune - and is no where near sufficient in its scope. Won't someone think of all the extra that could have been put into the NHS.

Parliament returns next week. I hope you have enjoyed your Christmas break. What will happen in 2019 no one knows; the only certainity is turbulance and lurching from crisis to crisis. If we don't get hit by Brexit, maybe it will be the US shutdown crisis or the collaspe in the Chinese economy that will get us. Economists are nervous and thats generally not a good thing for the average person on the street.

Time to get in the euros, stock up on the tomatoes, invest in books and otherwise batten down the hatches financially whilst we await the coming storm in the hope that the forecasters are as good as Michael Fish in 1987.

Michael Fish also said it would hit France, not the UK

It did hit France (highest wind speeds were in Brittany not the UK). Nit picking but as with Y2K the collective memory is not always accurate. I lived in London at the time and I will never forget walking across Newington Green that morning, it was unrecognisable, huge trees had come down. I walked to work (in Farringdon) because there was no tube and it would have been impossible to do the journey by car or bus. Not many people made it in.

It was a bad year: a month later many of my colleagues and I narrowly missed being caught up in the Kings Cross fire.

Actually I disagree about the other threads. Insults no, robust responses yes. It's the mumsnet way and Brexit is finally breaking out.

DGR its true that insults are sometimes needed
but sadly they do not have the desired effect on those who most need to hear them

If I ever were to do a PhD, I might use the Brexit debate to show how minimal investment in software can lead to a maximum effect in a large population.
I suspect it will be part of Politics degree courses within ten years

{ It's the mumsnet way and Brexit is finally breaking out.}
MNHQ is still making sure the Brexit threads don't get much prominence on the homepage. Pretty quick at pulling down 2 of the triple posted thread in AIBU as well.

I don't think insults are necessary. If someone disagrees with you or isn't informed well ( which is a personal opinion) then there's the ' leave the thread' option. Swapping insults means you are on the same level, not above them. Not many people agree with me but I would hope no one would throw insults at me because I have a different opinion informed or otherwise.

Well got to say the educational threads I'm on hardly anything about brexit has appeared simply because those threads are concerned with other subjects. Maybe mumsnet doesn't like the divisions brexit causes. Whatever.

And the AIBU just got zapped.
A shame as there were some interesting points on it

I agree Sostenueto and I posted on the other thread to say insults do the Remain cause no favours at all. I know people who voted Remain who would now vote Leave if there was a second referendum because of the attitude of some Remainers. The other thread is now being pulled and rightly so.

It's gone completely now. mn like Brexit to be hidden away because advertising is so important to them. Many posters will have completely hidden the Brexit section so those who choose not to learn/read/hear about Brexit can carry on as they were.

If someone did insult me I'd just report them. I wouldn't insult them back its just going down to their level. Must admit I probably insult people unintentionally even to the point people thought I was a troll. ( but maybe that's because I didn't agree with them)

I know people who voted Remain who would now vote Leave if there was a second referendum because of the attitude of some Remainers.

I don't know (of) anyone like that but the head-banging idiocy of that "reasoning" makes it clear why people get frustrated.

Mumsnet happily allows pile-ons as long as they're not about Brexit.

I reckon that early in the process they gave in to the people who hate seeing brexit discussed, so that now whenever there is a thread those people know they just have to click the report button a few times and threads will get zapped.

I can see it's a pain for the mods, but no more than other emotive threads.

Lots of people have more worrying things on their minds that is more relevant to their present situations than brexit. It dies not necessarily mean they don't want to know. If they are fighting a life threatening disease or have a family member doing so for instance brexit will be far away from their thoughts. Life or death goes on despite brexit.

On the plus side, people don't like brexit discussions mainly because the way they voted makes them uncomfortable. Even my arch leaver (soft brexiter) dad no longer wants to talk about it! They're all so fed up with winning.

SwedishEdith They are fed up with members of their family and friends being called thick, racist, idiots etc.

Troops must be ready for Brexit chaos, says defence minister Tobias Ellwood

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b180956c-106c-11e9-aa1a-52868904fdf4

The government must ensure that thousands of troops are available for deployment in the event that Britain leaves the EU without a deal, a leading minister has said
.
Ministers at a no-deal Brexit planning meeting on Thursday were told that 30,000 regular troops and 20,000 reserves must be ready to help manage the consequences.

Sources said that Tobias Ellwood, a defence minister, warned that troops may be needed in case of civil unrest, to help at airports and ensure the safe delivery of fuel and medical supplies.

He suggested that fellow ministers should remember what happened in the fuel blockade in 2000 [when troops were used to protect fuel deliveries] and plan for that kind of thing on a mass scale,”

Mrsr8
Imo remainers have been far too calm and collected for far too long.
But challenging people head on about ANY belief system does not make them change their minds.
It just makes others jump in and defend them.
If you want the vote overturned you have to draw the 30% who did not vote in to your side
not drive them to sympathise with the other side.

Got to admit there's some awful threads out there though. I think people seem more emboldened to write awful insults etc like trolls on the internet because this is a faceless and impersonal form of media.

Agreed violetparis

Don't tar everyone with the same brush. That's my favourite saying.

They are fed up with members of their family and friends being called thick, racist, idiots etc.

I still don't follow their logic.