Westministenders: Teetering on the edge

[RedToothBrush]

12 weeks to go.

There is rising confidence in the Extreme Brexiteer camp as well as open comments about how they can deliberately force through No Deal. Remember No Deal is the default. Every political crisis that takes up time makes no deal more likely and the ERG can just be obstructive to facilitate a political crisis. Parliament DO NOT have the ultimate power to stop Brexit - unless the government effectively allow an option to do so. And there is no sign May will let this ever happen. No Deal takes us back to pre-industrial revolution Britain in many social and economic ways. Which will please Jacob Rees-Mogg no end.

No Deal prep is now costing us a fortune - and is no where near sufficient in its scope. Won't someone think of all the extra that could have been put into the NHS.

Parliament returns next week. I hope you have enjoyed your Christmas break. What will happen in 2019 no one knows; the only certainity is turbulance and lurching from crisis to crisis. If we don't get hit by Brexit, maybe it will be the US shutdown crisis or the collaspe in the Chinese economy that will get us. Economists are nervous and thats generally not a good thing for the average person on the street.

Time to get in the euros, stock up on the tomatoes, invest in books and otherwise batten down the hatches financially whilst we await the coming storm in the hope that the forecasters are as good as Michael Fish in 1987.

I originally voted Remain, but now I am pretty convinced that the UK should leave.
Had the government sat down immediately the referendum was taken and properly assessed what was going on then discussed and planned with the EU HOW it could best leaving could be achieved with minimal cost and disruption then things could have worked out well. I don't see any way that the UK can now become 'great' again above what it was as a part of the EU and at the top table where it was definitely in the top few. The world is nowhere near like it was 45 years ago.
I do think the WA 'procedure', it's not a deal as it stands, is the best compromise and if entered with the right spirit could be a decent 'second best' to remaining. There is of course the massive fly in the ointment in that all the shouting and hollering has effectively killed off a fair chunk of the UK's industry (it hasn't gone yet, but it's going) thus making any form of compromise and recovery vastly more difficult.

PMK.

It's hard not to be 'insulting' to Leavers who continuously post the same self-pitying, ill-informed, unicorn-based twaddle though. However I do think it's a shame that AIBU thread went 'poof' because there were some interesting points. Thanks MN

Anyway. Prepping continues. I have bought a proper first aid and burns kit and lots of hot packs for dp's dodgy back. Sounds a bit daft, I know but these things will last if they're not needed, and hopefully stop me worrying too much.

I have also deleted Twitter. It was getting too much.

As I said at the end of the thread before it vanished ....

Many of the Brexiters I know are articulate, well off, educated and wealthy.
They also do not like their profit margins limited by pesky regulations on petty things like the environment and employment rights.
And many of them happen to be elected into positions of significant decision making in the middle tiers of Government.

Insulting the gullible will not help anybody.

But challenging people head on about ANY belief system does not make them change their minds.

Agree. Have been watching the David Koresh/Waco programmes this week and was shocked that there are still people who are Branch Davidians - "David Koresh wasn't the right sort of messiah".

Oh, how I miss the mn days of Aloha and Bloss arguing about God. If only they were the most contentious threads.

Nothing is going to change minds at this point except for a really miserable Brexit.

I only post on the AIBU threads to pick holes in people's stupid arguments. Yes it's provocative. It's not intended to change minds because even if that were possible this wouldn't be the place. Brexit is quite personal for me and because I can't vote anywhere I don't have any democratic outlet except occasionally shitposting on MN and hoping to annoy a few leavers.

Nothing is going to change minds at this point except for a really miserable Brexit.
Sadly I agree.

Yes, the 4chan trolls and their Russian siblings are back at work everywhere. Expect overtime next week.

I think being called racist and thick is worse imo. Throwing insults around just makes me feel that the extremes of the debate are as toxic and as intolerant as each other.

I agree @Mistigri ( is that the third time today?) - only a really miserable Brexit will change most minds.
Although when "Project Fear " comes true with aNo Deal, obviously it'll be "all Remoaners' fault".

Oh, how I miss the mn days of Aloha and Bloss arguing about God. If only they were the most contentious threads

Oh, it was a simpler time indeed

I don't have any democratic outlet except occasionally shitposting on MN and hoping to annoy a few leavers.

Sorry, I know the whole thing is far from funny, but this blatant honesty really made me giggle.

It’s hard not to call out stupidity when I see it. I had a huge row with FIL - and he bloody voted remain - because he claims to be able to predict upside from no-deal Brexit and it will only be short term bad. Now DH is all upset because it seems like the end of the world to him when people he loves are in conflict and I’m pissed off at him because although he supported me in front of FiL he then publically said he thinks I should be more circumspect in my fucking language.
Brexit is very bad for my blood pressure.

I miss the simpler times on here when we could say “CAT me you cunt” and HQ (rightly) interpreted it to be said affectionately.

Mistigri
In the good old days I used to stand outside polling stations saying no taxation without representation to anybody who walked past

If on Twitter, make sure your quality filter is on. Makes a huge difference - I rarely see numpty posts.

I must admit I hardly ever look at Brexit threads outside Westministenders.

Any thread with concern about the 3 million becomes disgustingly racist
Any thread about No deal reveals most people are totally ignorant about how international trade works - and what happens when it yuddenly dpesn't for the UK

Hurt feelings now are one thing
What young Remainers would do if No Deal Brexit happens and the country goes down the toilet - along with their future - is something that seriously concerns me:

Their prospects, in comparison to my generation, have already been hammered by property prices, combined with the low wages in real terms still resulting from the 2008 financial crash.

Now Brexit - which will worsen standards of living and may cost some of them their jobs and homes.
Those who can't emigrate may just explode in fury - and vent their rage against those they even suspect of being Leavers

PMKing. Thanks Red.

I have Twitter sorted. I follow interesting people, have it set to show the latest posts not "top posts" and I ruthlessly mute (never block) stupid people (of any opinion) whose unwanted claptrap somehow makes it into my timeline.

I also mute stupid people who cause other people to tweet stupid shit, such as Corbyn and Trump. (You'd be amazed at how muting Corbyn improves your timeline).

I don't often tweet, I don't have anything very original to say about Brexit or British/French politics, and I don't talk about work-related stuff - where I do have original and I hope interesting opinions - because it would be too outing (big fish small pond).

My Twitter feed is purely for managing DHs posts (like he knows what I put on there in his name !!!) so it has almost no politics.

Twitter's great for breaking news. Was able to ring DD earlier to warn her about gilets jaunes (who piss me off even more than brexiters) in the Latin quarter. And it's good for finding people with sensible things to say about foreign politics. My favourite follows are the European politics people.

Well, that's probably me you mean, wrt insults.

🤷‍♀️

I'm a lovely person but ... the UK is going to be trashed & we're still acting as though this is some kind of debate. It's not. The enablement of delusion is, frankly, driving me a bit mad .

That said, normal (reasonable) service will now be resumed ...

I have Twitter for work so can’t really get political there. The hardest thing is not retweeting our amazing gender critical sisters, TBH. And the Irish border. I follow that kind of account because no employer can tell me what I can fucking read.

thecat
you among others but it was a general point
as those are the most useful