Westministenders: Passing the Buck

[RedToothBrush]

There's a deal.

The press are over excited.

May has united the country.

Everyone hates it.
(Apart from David Allen Green)

Parliament might yet reject it.

Nothing is yet decided and everything is still to be sorted.

[bellinisurge]

I once had to use telex to keep overseas colleagues up to date with some nasty shit going on in the country in question's capital city. Happy days.

[DGRossetti]

Telex is a legal document - hence it's use internationally, and why we were purchasing petroleum products (natural gas, actually) via telex. Contracts stated that orders had to be placed by 18:00 which is the start of the "gas day". One to the oil rig, one to the London office of the OilCo, and one to the onshore station to receive the gas.

Every single contract was negotiated individually, and had to cover overall gas take, average daily gas take, shutdown periods and the receiving terminal, since you wanted to avoid using a compressor where possible (since they could use as much gas as a small town in a day). All of that had to be matched to projected demand, and the most efficient use of contracts would be calculated before individual orders were generated and telexed out.

It's why I have a shoutout on my CV for Energy Industry experience ...

Anyway, back to Brexit.

[DGRossetti]

Anyone started a petition to call November 14th "Brexit Day" ? The coincidence with Chucks bday is serendipitous.

[SusanWalker]

Having been told repeatedly by brexiteers that I should stop undermining brexit and get behind it and it will be all my fault if everything is shit because I was talking down my country, I'd like at this moment to say "ditto".

Adam Boulton was quite good on sky this morning, pointing out to brexiteers that they have got what they wanted which is exiting the EU, so they should vote for it.

Im not sure how I feel about it. I want us to remain, but I don't want us to leave without a deal either. If we're essentially going to be in the CU and the SM I will be pleased as I don't want American food standards. I have a feeling we will eventually need so many European workers for the NHS and other industries that we may well end up with an immigration policy that is more or less free movement too.

[Talkstotrees]

Thank you Red. I want my life back but I’ve now accepted that won’t happen. Bollocks to bollocking Brexit. I guess eternal transition is better than any real Brexit, but it’s not membership and it’s pointless and the whole sorry mess has diminished our lives.

[Icantreachthepretzels]

^pretzels atm there is no clear public consent for Remain
and a forced Remain would make the UK a permanent wrecking ball inside the EU - so they'd probably oppose revocation in such circumstances^

Sorry, I don't understand? I never said there was ...
Maybe you were responding to the bit where I talked about them throwing their toys out of the pram? I was just referring to the likelihood of them getting arsey and ridiculous with their rhetoric - and doing a cut their nose off to spite their face strop ... not that they would actually do anything. They never do anything.

But if everyone thought 'we shouldn't brexit at all' (but coming from differing perspectives as to why - it's a terrible idea vs this isn't what I wanted brexit to be so I'm not playing) that would be a unification of sorts. I'm not suggesting it would stop brexit - just that everyone would finally agree it was shit. We would be united in that.

[TheElementsSong]

Having been told repeatedly by brexiteers that I should stop undermining brexit and get behind it and it will be all my fault if everything is shit because I was talking down my country, I'd like at this moment to say "ditto".

Hah, indeed!

Also, that Leavers shouldn't be surprised, because they "always knew exactly what they were voting for" so they should know WTF is going on in great detail, unlike the rest of us poor confused sods.

[MissMalice]

guess eternal transition is better than any real Brexit, but it’s not membership and it’s pointless and the whole sorry mess has diminished our lives.

Yep - “it’s not as bad as no deal” isn’t exactly a win for our country. I don’t understand who could be happy with this and I fear “everyone knew there would have to be a compromise” will be the soundtrack of the next 2 years

[RedToothBrush]

May to make a statement at 5pm.

[Peregrina]

We're saying - if this deal goes through - we're staying in the SM, because after Brexit we expect transition to be extended and extended .
We get rid of Farage, Nuttall, Hannan - bonus.
We also get rid of some decent MEPs, Catherine Bearder and Molly Cato spring to mind.

You know the Norvegian option.

This isn't that - Norway is in the Single Market and Schengen but not in the Customs Union. It's more like the Turkish option, which I believe does have a customs agreement with the EU. Oh dear, was this what the "we're leaving, you lost, get over it, " crowd really wanted?

[DGRossetti]

Yep - “it’s not as bad as no deal” isn’t exactly a win for our country. I don’t understand who could be happy with this and I fear “everyone knew there would have to be a compromise” will be the soundtrack of the next 2 years

A fading soundtrack though ...

Having been on the back foot since June 2016, it feels odd to have sprung forward so quickly (seems a week is a long time in politics). This is Brexit. This is it. And if Leavers aren't happy, maybe - just maybe - they should have put the work in.

[MissMalice]

I can’t see that this is the end for leavers though. This isn’t the Brexit they wanted and so it will just be a further campaign to get the Brexit they want. Yes they should have put the work in but that didn’t stop them campaigning before.

[lonelyplanetmum]

Odd timing as May's about to speak but rumours of John McDonnell muttering about “Remain & Reform” and vis the Labour Party press office?? Surely not- Just checking??

[1tisILeClerc]

{I guess eternal transition is better than any real Brexit}
Not really. Serious business relies on 'certainty', as far ahead as possible and for the likes of car makers, their plans are 5 years or more ahead, and Airbus and similar industries possibly 10 years ahead. They do not want the UK to be in a position to say 'I think I might leave' again.
BMW was saying a while back that a new plant in China (?) is planned for 4 year's time, waiting on some trade regulation which is planned to actually take place.

[Motheroffourdragons]

So, I am now confused, I think.

Is it really correct that NI will remain in both the CU and the SM (with the 4 pillars) while GB stays only in the CU - until we figure out what to do with the actual border in Ireland?

In which case unless we set up border control at the ports, your Eastern European who still wants to come (can't imagine why), can still come via Dublin and then Belfast?

Or am I missing something?

[Peregrina]

Yes indeed DGR - "you lost, get over it Remoaners", doesn't exactly say what they did want.

I will be interested to see how Johnson, Grease-Smug, Redwood and Co vote. If May has managed to face them down, it would be some sort of victory, but it's come at a big cost. Although wasn't no deal better than a bad deal? I suppose she's going to say that this is a good deal?

If this is it, then we need to start the campaign to rejoin. In the 17th Century they executed the King, but 12 years later, decided to restore the monarchy.

[DGRossetti]

I can’t see that this is the end for leavers though. This isn’t the Brexit they wanted and so it will just be a further campaign to get the Brexit they want. Yes they should have put the work in but that didn’t stop them campaigning before.

The problem is, having ensured no one ever really knew the proper facts, and campaigning by lying misinformation, and given that most Leave voters are going to take a lot of persuading that this isn't the Leave they wanted. And even if they were persuaded ... what then ? Another referendum ?

I think, like the referendum on voting reform, this is a once in a generation thing. I really can't see the public - or media - having the stomach for endless bellyaching about Brexit.

This is fulfilling the prediction made the day after the referendum that absolutely no one would be happy with the outcome.

Many years ago, a friend of my DFs had this sign in his shop:

Old Chinese Proverb:

You ask for credit; I no give; you get mad.
I give you credit; you no pay; I get mad.
Better you get mad.

(He was from Thailand, which added to the smile ...)

[DGRossetti]

I will be interested to see how Johnson, Grease-Smug, Redwood and Co vote.

If it can have no effect on the outcome (or they believe it will have no effect ) then - again - who gives a shit ? I don't. All I know is whenever JRM gets airtime, he can be told he got Brexit. And if he wanted anything different, he should have done something, rather than carping from the sidelines. He had his chance.

Last I heard of it, didn't he have full faith in Theresa May ?

[Talkstotrees]

Mother, I understand NI will be bound by certain aspects of single market regulation, such as environment standards. This is to maintain a level playing field. Or something like that. Wibble.

It doesn’t include FOM.

People arriving illegally over the NI border would not be able to work or rent a home (legally at least). That’s if we could differentiate between them and those who were here already (possibly by passport data?)

[Talkstotrees]

It’s kind of the opposite of cherry picking.

[bellinisurge]

When I mentioned the risk of illegal immigrants coming over the land border in NI before the referendum, I was called an idiot for such an irrelevant post. Hmmm

[Hasenstein]

That’s if we could differentiate between them and those who were here already (possibly by passport data?)

I think I'd question the Home Office's passport data competence there. The nearest year they could guess () for my DW's entry to the UK was 2011. She actually came in 1978.

[Talkstotrees]

Still, we’ll have medicine & food And the £ has regained a little of its value.

[Talkstotrees]

Reasons to be cheerful 1,2,3.

[DGRossetti]

People arriving illegally over the NI border would not be able to work or rent a home (legally at least). That’s if we could differentiate between them and those who were here already (possibly by passport data?)

Nope.

Even before Brexit, people had noted that the UK - for whatever reason (parsimony probably) - did not have an immigration system which allowed EU nationals that should be here to be distinguished from those that shouldn't. I think it was when that cunt Cameron was flitting around the EU, generally wasting time and being a nuisance cunt and experts noted that the UK simply couldn't enforce the EU immigration rules (find work within 3 months) if it wanted to.

Unless we have a brand new, fit-for-purpose immigration system, that problem remains.

We'll either have to have some sort of amnesty, or endless Windrush-type headlines.