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Brexit

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Original poster

AIBU to think that if the government stopped or paused Brexit, it is highly unlikely there would be massive 'civil' unrest ?

504 replies

frumpety · 12/11/2018 12:04

I have heard people say that if Brexit was stopped or even paused there would be riots and mass civil unrest as a result. I honestly don't think there would be, I know a lot of people would be annoyed or angry.

Would any leave voter on here seriously consider rioting ?

OP posts:
Jason118 · 18/11/2018 23:28

And my other grandfather.....SmileSmile

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 00:02

Jason118 - what is so unusual about being of Irish descent? About 4 or 5 million people in the UK have an Irish Grandparent (or two). I'm the product of a Northern Irish Catholic and an English Protestant (and member of the armed forces) - my father he was orange and my mother she was green :-) stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

lonelyplanetmum · 19/11/2018 05:57

Outside - you are clearly an articulate and passionate Leave supporter.

Like you I’m of Irish Catholic and an English Protestant descent but unfortunately a generation back, so my family can’t get EU freedom of movement. I think you said your family can.

Anyway, I have a question about how a Leave stance on the EU fits in with other organisations too. I asked this question up thread- but the thread went off in another direction.

I want to know which international cooperation you, or any other Leavers don’t like !

We are sorting out relinquishing EU membership. That is happening. But what is, or should be, next on the list?

Other leavers have mentioned UNESCO I think?

Can you tell me which of the following participations you would wish to retain, and which you would prefer to relinquish?

Which would be the next thing after the EU is sorted?

I think there needs to be more long term foresight and planning next time.

We perhaps won’t agree, but I want to try and understand which we should retain and which we should quit iyswim?

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bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 06:19

Outside- if course you can work all over the world as my family did and does. Subject to getting the right papers. My sibling with their Irish passport just paid a hundred it do quid for their work visa in one country. In the same country their spouse who got theirs with a uk passport had to pay over a thousand quid. Something about bilateral relationship....

twofingerstoEverything · 19/11/2018 07:14

I don't say any such thing about foreigners. Why would I since I am married to one?

So is Nigel Farage. Didn't stop him 'saying things' about foreigners.

Peregrina · 19/11/2018 07:47

I can never understand why people who want to leave the EU seem so enthusiastic about NATO, or in general have no problems with US dominated organisations. If their aim is to make us the 51 state, why not say so?

UnnecessaryFennel · 19/11/2018 11:54

Also I am the child of an Irish immigrant, hence I can have an Irish passport if I wish 😊 as can my children, although they already have French ID cards, so none of us will lose our FoM

Yet another Leaver who is champing at the bit to remove other people's rights, but not his, or those of his family.

How delightfully convenient. And how tediously, unsurprisingly, hypocritical.

prettybird · 19/11/2018 12:53

From Outside I think that's what separates many Leave voters from Remain voters, some of us are far more world-wise and don't need looking after by nanny EU.

CODSwallop Hmm

And that's before you even address his or her hypocrisy because they and their family can claim Irish passports and have French residence cards (the "I'm all right Jack" attitude Hmm) Hmm

Like many Remainers, I have an international background and have experienced life overseas. I am a naturalised Commonwealth immigrant of many meany years standing (but my dad is still making sure he knows where the naturalisation certificates are, just in case Sad), have lived in NZ, worked in both Switzerland and France, have a French and Economics degree, can speak some Russian (although I've forgotten most of it as the two years I studied it at Uni were a looong time ago Blush), have close relatives in Germany and Denmark, used to work for ICI gone but not forgotten Sad, at times dealing with imports/exports (so know how complicated it can be) and done a lot of business with Iceland (which is my other favourite small country after Scotland of course Wink).

I live in a multi-cultural part of Glasgow which voted 70% Remain Smile - even though the majority of that multi-culturalism is Commonwealth and not EU. Not everywhere in the UK is narrow-minded and fearful of immigration and being "swamped". Some of us are welcoming Smile

There would definitely be no civil unrest here if the Government stopped or paused Brexit. On the contrary, there would be celebrations Smile (although perhaps tempered by the fact that that could put back independence Wink)

bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 13:02

Remainer here. Well travelled outside the EU. Prepper. Old.
With an even older Mum who voted Remain before she died.
Anyway, surely the problem now is "No Dealers". Hard to say how anyone who voted Leave stands these days. Unless they stand in the No Deal camp with the posh boys.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 13:09

uneccessaryfennel - "Yet another Leaver who is champing at the bit to remove other people's rights, but not his, or those of his family.

How delightfully convenient. And how tediously, unsurprisingly, hypocritical"

Nope, I'm not champing at the bit to remove anyone's rights. Those with skills can work anywhere, EU membership or no is no barrier.
Seriously - FoM is of no great benefit to UK citizens at all. Oh, so we have the right to go and work in one of the EU27 countries - whoopee! First off, there is the language barrier - which language to learn? French, Germain, Spanish, Italian, Swedish....all of them? You get the picture.
FoM has resulted in a mostly one-way traffic of EUers to the UK to work in low-skiled and low-paid jobs, which economically are not advantageous for the UK - far better to locate the farms abroad rather than import workers to pick low-value crops in the UK.
In addition, a UK worker can't go abroad and work in a low-skilled role picking turnips or suchlike, live in a field and save his wages to return home an buy himself a house. Eastern European workers can do that by coming to the UK, living in a field and picking turnips. They aren't here because of any ideals of European harmony and cooperation, they aren't here because they love us, they're here to earn cash and that's it.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 13:12

Oh - to add. If a UK citizen really wants to go abroad and pick grapes, they can. People used to do this well before the EU or FoM existed and even before the UK joined the EEC. They couldn't come back and buy a house with their earnings though (and still can't) but it made for a nice summer in a foreign country.

BorisBogtrotter · 19/11/2018 13:13

The 4 freedoms as a whole have been beneficial to the UK.

FOM of Labour has been beneficial because of the net tax contribution of EU workers, but also in filling skills gaps in the UK allowing us to be more productive.

BorisBogtrotter · 19/11/2018 13:14

." They couldn't come back and buy a house with their earnings though (and still can't) but it made for a nice summer in a foreign country."

Creating a strawman there, not a relevant argument

bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 13:14

You can't rock up in a third country and work legally because you fancy it. Ever tried working in the US or Australia.
Yeah, go and work illegally if any decent business will take you and risk the consequences.

DarlingNikita · 19/11/2018 13:16

Outside, your post is so stupid I don't really know where to begin, but I'll have a go at one point:

far better to locate the farms abroad rather than import workers to pick low-value crops in the UK. And then what? The UK pays import/customs costs to import this produce from 'abroad'? How would that help us?

Peregrina · 19/11/2018 13:17

First off, there is the language barrier - which language to learn?

DD worked in an International organisation in the Netherlands, where the language of business was English. She was learning Dutch in her spare time.

DS is off to an international scientific research establishment where the working language is English, but he does hope to learn the local language.

FoM has resulted in a mostly one-way traffic of EUers to the UK to work in low-skiled and low-paid jobs,
FoM to me meant a Danish dentist, who has now retired early to go back. Skilled midwives, skilled nurses, skilled Doctors. Now the last may not be paid anything like as well as they deserve but don't bother to try to convince me with your 30 year old economics degree that these aren't skilled people.

Did you ever watch Auf Wiedersehen , Pet? This could so easily happen again, that our young people need to go abroad to find work.

But please carry on, I am happy to let Leaver arguments speak for themselves.

Peregrina · 19/11/2018 13:21

They couldn't come back and buy a house with their earnings though (and still can't) but it made for a nice summer in a foreign country.

At the time my generation were grape picking in the south of France, they could come back and buy semi detached houses for sums like £3,000 in many parts of the country. Not in the south east I will grant you, even then.

1tisILeClerc · 19/11/2018 13:23

As I have said on several occasions, I was a Remainer and had there been some sensible discussion before triggering A50 or shortly after Remaining would have been the best option.
Having watched the total shambles and worse the disgusting behaviour of senior MPS and much of the press and the rabid views of too many 'Leavers', I believe that the UK should leave.
The UK has shown over 40 years that it is not really minded to cooperate at a political level and is simply an irritant. Away from politics, industry fits the UK in between Germany, France and Holland etc and there is a lot of brilliant cross 'border' work done which is being threatened by anything other than Remain (which has now practically gone as Industry has started it's move) so it needs the best deal possible and retain CU/SM at least. I have no intention of reading the 585 pages but trust that it was senior civil servants of both the UK and EU who drafted it so it will be as well balanced as possible.
Many billions have been wasted over this exercise but while the UK remains in the EU it will forever be a scapegoat for UK governments of both main flavours so reluctantly the UK has to go.
30th March onwards will be interesting to see the UK gov actually having to deal with the real reasons behind Brexit, principally inequality across the UK. UK government has had the power to sort the issues out over the years but with a ready made 'excuse' have chosen to look away.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 13:51

bellinisurge - "You can't rock up in a third country and work legally because you fancy it. Ever tried working in the US or Australia.
Yeah, go and work illegally if any decent business will take you and risk the consequences"
I never said you could. I just said that it's not difficult if you have skills. I have a cousin working in Australia right now, he's a paramedic and he and his family have been there about 8 years now IIRC. A brother-in-law has made his home in the US and has worked there for 20 years now. It's not hard if you have a useful skill.

bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 13:53

You were talking about going to pick grapes for a seasonal job not emigrating. I also have family members who do live and work or have lived and worked outside the EU. With the right paperwork. Sorry but it's boring paperwork again.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 13:55

DarlingNikita - "far better to locate the farms abroad rather than import workers to pick low-value crops in the UK. And then what? The UK pays import/customs costs to import this produce from 'abroad'? How would that help us?"

Ever heard of the concept of comparative advantage? Ok, the world can return to subsistence farming if you like but we've kind of organised ourselves economically so that we free up our labour to do more economically productive things and let other countries/areas do what they're better at. We can probably grow bananas in the UK if we tried but it's a lot of effort and it's much more efficient for all parties if we just let the South Americans/Africans grow them and buy them from them, freeing up all the resources we would have wasted growing bananas in sunny Newcastle.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 14:02

Peregrina - "At the time my generation were grape picking in the south of France, they could come back and buy semi detached houses for sums like £3,000 in many parts of the country. Not in the south east I will grant you, even then."

Did they earn £3,000 from their summer job?

bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 14:02

But we need the paperwork in place to import those bananas. And if we have No Deal we have no deals anywhere. Including with whichever countries we import bananas from. Until we sort out a deal. Which may take years, months at best.

OutsideInTheGarden · 19/11/2018 14:05

bellinisurge - "You were talking about going to pick grapes for a seasonal job not emigrating. I also have family members who do live and work or have lived and worked outside the EU. With the right paperwork. Sorry but it's boring paperwork again."

What is your problem with paperwork? Compared to the whole effort of relocating abroad, a couple of forms is not much extra work.

Besides, how many UK citizens have ever or will ever, exercise their rights under FoM and work in the EU? I have, but I'm well aware that I am in the very small minority. Why on earth should most Brits be enthusiastic about it? There is nothing intrinsically good about having lots of migrant labour in your country. It is not necessary to virtue-signal just how much we love foreigners.

bellinisurge · 19/11/2018 14:10

My problem with paperwork is that business doesn't flow without it and No Deal makes it harder to do in an efficient way.
You can only get so far winging it without all the legal stuff sorted.
Can you acknowledge that if we are doing childish debates on this thread as you seem to like.