Westministenders: Game Over?

[RedToothBrush]

May has a draft deal which she has presented to the Cabinet. Woohooo!

The catch is, it doesn't mention the Irish Border. Just a minor point. This is because she has no way forward on it. There are so many red lines from so many different groups shes tangled up in knots with them.

She wrote a letter to the DUP to tell them to suck it up. Arlene has told her to stick it. And if she hadn't told her to stick it, Scottish Tories would have told her to stick it. David Davis has told her to stick it. Rees-Moog has told her to stick it. And this afternoon, one of the Ministers for Queues at Dover, Jo Johnson, told her to stick it and that we need a people's vote. On top of that, her plans to try and get cross party support and get the Labour Party to support it, have suffered a blow as Momentum voted to tell May to stick it.

In fact it might be harder to think of people who WILL support it.

Not that this is a surprise. We've all be aware of this for some time. Is it finally game over?

The government have at least seemingly realised that this month is the last opportunity they have for a deal. Dominic has also realised that Dover is quite close to France and this is quite a big deal.

The EU pushed back their meeting until the 27th. This coincidentally is the same day there is a decision over a50 at the ECJ and the right to revoke.

If May can't get her act together over the Irish Border, this might yet prove to be the last option open to her, to prevent Brexmaggeddon.

Jo Johnson is not too far from the mark with vassalage or chaos? Take your pick Mrs May.

As someone upthread rightly observed, we now live in a world of dangerous polarities . The Labour Party is the SWP and Tories ERG/ EDL. But the vast majority of us , as we have discussed many times on these threads- are between these two extremes and have become politically disenfranchised.

For what it's worth and I desperately hope I won't derail the thread with this - I think self ID is ridiculous. And so does one of my oldest and dearest friends. She transitioned many years ago, and venturing out to work post op had to endure a tabloid snapper with long lens lurking in her front garden, and her car was vandalised with obscene graffiti.

Let's not throw away the baby with the bath water. For me Brexit is the all consuming subject of our time, not only possibly plunging the country into economic Armageddon but also along the way stripping us, stealthy step by stealthy step, of the very basis of our democratic process.

All my energies are focused on doing what little I can to change things, learning as much as I can thanks to our discussions and preparing myself and my loved ones as far as is possible, for the coming storm.

Just checked my emails and i had the lib dems trans rights one...I hit the feedback button

Women every year across the country are being killed by current or former partners. Women make up half the population. Brexit particularly no deal brexit will cost lives through lower food standards, limited access to medication and NHS staff shortages. And yet with all this mayhem you want me to focus on trans rights and the umbrella term of transgenderism? To be clear I support anyone who is diagnosed with gender dysmorphia but I do not support self id. Gender dysmorphia can be crippling but the lax umbrella of transgenderism is extremism that doesn't help those with a diagnosis and damages women's liberation.

This rumour is growing Miliband (D) And Blair???

www.thenational.ae/world/europe/david-miliband-eyes-return-to-british-politics-as-head-of-a-new-party-1.790680

Huzzah @hazardswan !
You said what I meant , except very much less pompously !

If that rumour is true, I would back them in a heartbeat. It's what will have to happen first that worries me most.

Well said Mightybanhammer, the right wing press will look for every conceivable diversion and smokescreen to push through their disaster capitalist, tax avoiding brexit, don't let a difference of opinion over trans rights or self ID allow a brexit catastrophe to happen.

They should unite with the LibDems and Greens

DG I remember Spain, Greece and Portugal were fascist dictatorships for many years and were only allowed to join the then EC after the restoration of democracy.

it seemed those dictatorships and especially the USSR would last for ever, but iirc in each country there was a sudden weakness observed in the regime and then it collapsed fairly suddenly

The UK joined the 6 original members in 1972 to make them the 9 - then ref in 1975 - my first ever vote

Me too, sleepy

Women are the ones with XX chromosones; men have XY or very occasionally XYY or XXY
About 2 women per week are murdered by their partners

Labour & LDems have both thrown women - and basic biology - out of the window
Another example of feelz trumping facts and the politicians pandering to lobby groups, lots of US funding

A few Tories like Maria Miller & Penny Mordaunt have followed, but self-ID is not yet mainstream Tory policy
We had a go at McDonnell on his Webchat here

Maybe MN can scare some sense into politicians over this issue, because here at least, polls show the public are about 80% against this lunacy

Excellent reply, Hazard

Yes, it does seem like we have Weapons of Mass Distraction going off everywhere

difference of opinion

To be fair it's more than that.

Mighty thank you and I'm sorry your friend went through that. Your right that Brexit is the consuming subject of our times.

ban I hope things are going well for your friend now and that she is able to get on with her life in peace

Bloody LibDems, they're desperate to make it impossible for me to vote for them. So is there a political party that is pro-EU and pro-reality?

Are the lib dems any different from Labour or conservatives over so called trans rights? I thought the three were being competively right on?

I thought the Greens had gone down the same route too. A better response than mine Hazard - I just hit the delete button.

BTW I'd like to clarify that I accept people who see themselves as trans or gender non-conforming and am usually live and let live but there have to be some ground rules we agree to as a society and denying biology makes me angry thank you very much Val. I would support rights for trans people but not at the cost of biological women and their human rights, especially vulnerable women and there are so, so many. It is our reproductive nature and biology that makes us inherently vulnerable from teenage girls, pregnant women, women with children to very elderly women who still get assaulted for being female. We have our biology to beckon with and denying our reality is unacceptable and rather silly.

I would like especially young trans people to feel as safe as possible and to experience stigma based on who they feel they are but please let's not forget that all women are inherently at risk due to their biology, we know this.

I don't like the pushy campaign style in which Val's email is written, it fails to acknowledge that there is a debate to be had and that trans does not trump all else and certainly not women's rights. I feel it's an assault on my identity to deny my biological reality and experience.

Her email is simplistic and ideological. I expect the Lib Dems to treat me not as a dumb voter but as a woman who is able to see shades of grey in a debate. Val is trying to pull the wool over our eyes with her email and i do not appreciate that; I may have to spoil my ballot paper should it come to a GE and was prepared to support Lib Dem based on their stance on Brexit.

Rant and derail over. Apologies.

*and to NOT experience stigma based on who they feel they

Peregrina aye I forgot the greens, we never have a green candidate here barely have a lib demmer.

Thanks bigchoc Weapons of Mass Distraction indeed!

👏👏👏👏 sleepy excellent response very articulate.

I've just realised that the Brexit Ultras remind me of the Branch Davidians (Waco)
Labour to the rescue 🤭 probably with serious collateral damage, like the macho FBI caused, storming in at Waco

Do you remember the Orange people cult? Bagwhan? Maybe that's what the 45th and his wee brexitty friends have transformed into?

JC has a new bestie:

@Nigel_Farage
Keir Starmer is wrong to say Brexit can be stopped, he should listen to @jeremycorbyn.

We agree furiously

And yes my friend says hi - she is perfectly comfortable that is all ancient history really but worth repeating- she went on the March of 700,000 proudly representing at least three other people who couldn't - ( including me- I freak in crowds) as is the way.

David M come back, come baaaack. You and Brian Cox....D ream team...

Well Dom Raabs found a way out without having to admit he can't do his job.

"I've decided its better not to do the homework miss, rather than hand in something that will only merit a G. And if you disagree you are undermining democracy"

_ Reuters: EU's Barnier said Brexit treaty text almost ready: FT_

I gather this is the best draft from Barnier & Robbins that could be completed in time for the crucial Cabinet meeting tomorrow

This meeting has already been postponed several times since last Wednesday,
but tomorrow is the last possible date to decide whether the UK must start pumping really big money into No Deal prep, ordering shipping space on ferries etc

The draft must be within Barnier's guidelines from the E27, or he wouldn't be releasing it like this
However, it has things in - the NI backstop - that the UK side have not agreed to.

From what Raab says, he and some other ministers will oppose it, possible to the degree of resigning
BUT, the only other option May has is No Deal

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-barnier-deal/eus-barnier-said-brexit-treaty-text-almost-ready-ft-idUSKCN1NH1NQ?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator has said the main elements of an exit treaty text are ready to present to the British cabinet on Tuesday,
the Financial Times reported, citing unidentified diplomats briefed on the discussions.

Michel Barnier told ministers from the EU’s remaining 27 member states that “the parameters of a possible agreement are very largely defined” but still require political endorsement, the FT said. < from the UK >

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-labour-boris-johnson-keir-starmer-eu-negotations-a8630001.html

Jeremy Corbyn's plans for a destructive Brexit power grab make him every inch the equal of Boris Johnson

A very good summary of the politics if brexit.

Tbh even if Corbyn manages to be elected on the back of a disastrous Brexit, i don’t think people are going to forgive him for letting that happen just to be able to grab power.

{The EU is not currently working to include any second referendum in its Brexit planning, sources in Brussels said}
From the Reuters article.
Wound you read that as meaning there will be no extra time allowed (by the EU) after 29th March? Originally there had been a 'possible' extension IF there was a GE or significant shift in position.