Budget supporting Middle England

[Bearbehind]

On what planet is is right that a couple earning £100k plus are over £1,000 better off when a couple earning £25k between them are £150 better off after the budget.

And the latter probably voted Leave in order to shake up the establishment.

It’s hysterical that I’d be accused of being a leftie!

Brexit does indeed cut across all party boundaries.

The fact that both main parties are persuing the same outcome at the will of their leader is the problem though.

So we know that Labour's working class base (not to be confused with Labour party members) largely supported Brexit we can understand the parties position over the last 2 years. The alternative is to abandon this position to appease middle class remain voters who would probably favour the Lib Dems or Tories in "normal" times anyway.

I think the reality is that it’s the working class Brexit supporters who are thinking the most about the consequences now - the rich ones can ride it out.

Yes there’s the kamikaze ones who think things can’t get worse but I suspect a lot of Nissan workers are thinking again about their choices.

I think the reality is that it’s the working class Brexit supporters who are thinking the most about the consequences now - the rich ones can ride it out.

but I doubt it is a large enough number to bring about a change of thinking by any political party.

But labour isn’t the party of Brexit - or have I missed something?

But labour isn’t the party of Brexit - or have I missed something?

Well you may have missed the Tory civil war over Europe waged over 25 years. The Tories calling the referendum and the Tories now implementing withdrawal from the EU.

No, I didn’t miss that. Which is why I understand why Brexit is so pivotal to the Tories.

But why are Labour pinning their colours to it?

Other than Corbyn wants to.

Well, its a forum..... people do lie ! though i'm sure you do not.

I was merely replying to your view that there was no point supporting Labour as they'd be no GE before Brexit, no point in opposing anything then is there? i think it might have gone over your head!

The Budget is a whole, Labour cannot pick an chose what aspects they can or cannot vote for and the tories know it, this current lot may be everything i despise but they are cunning, more so than most Labour politicians not that that is a necessarily a positive!

I note you do not acknowledge your part in brexit by voting in previous Tory administrations..

@Bear the bottom line is you'll never support Labour not now not ever, JC just gives you a ready made excuse.

But why are Labour pinning their colours to it?

They aren't, the reality is Brexit is happening. Not enough people have changed their minds making a second referendum pointless and a peoples vote just offering the least worst option.

What I have sensed from social media inparticular is that some remain voters spend more time complaining about Labour than they do the party that actual got us into this miss. I also sense that despite having concerns about the affect Brexit will have on the working class would still consider voting Tory in the future (because of Corbyn) even though existing Tory policies already hammer the working class. Because some remainers now see British politics as about Brexit and nothing else they forget all the things they have brought us to this point - backlash against austerity, globalisation etc

the bottom line is you'll never support Labour not now not ever, JC just gives you a ready made excuse.

And there is your problem.

I actually would vote Labour if it wasn’t for Corbyn.

Brexit is unlikey to affect me personally but I still loathe it.

Pickles your head doesn’t it?

The PLP under JC have a history of opposing all he does, they are not supporting a form of brexit because of him.

Unfortunately, almost everyone is shit scared of going against the Will of the People, least they get flamed in the 'press.

There is a void of political leadership, easier to follow :(

They aren't, the reality is Brexit is happening. Not enough people have changed their minds making a second referendum pointless and a peoples vote just offering the least worst option.

Do you honestly believe that if Labour had put up any kind of decent opposition, that we’d be in this place now?

If Labour had robustly challenged the fact that TMs red lines were mutually exclusive and therefore impossible, this shit show would have been sorted long ago.

As it is it has been allowed to drag on forever.

Do you honestly believe that if Labour had put up any kind of decent opposition, that we’d be in this place now?

I don't think you understand opposition. Opposition means the government can largely bat away your complaints. As a pp said the media backlash against anyone pro remain means political suicide. The right wing press have been winning elections for 40 years. The "will of the people" mantra works as well as "Corbyn is unelectable". Brexiteers and "anybody but Corbyn" remainers have more in common than they realise.

You also will not acknowledge that not enough people have changed their minds on Brexit. The damage was done when the Tories announced a referendum.

The PLP under JC have a history of opposing all he does,

Bit like he has as an MP to numerous other Labour Leaders in the past then.

The damage was done when the Tories announced a referendum.

Ah, I didn’t realise we were going to revert to this forever therefore any future opposition was pointless.

Good, good.

I’m still looking for a defence of Corbyns stance.

Anyone?

The right wing press have been winning elections for 40 years

With Blair's landslide in 1997? Granted that he was Tory Lite, there was still a lot of clear water between what his New Labour stood for and the Thatcher and later Tories stood for. Education wasn't starved of cash in the same way for a starter.

The Tories haven't won a really convincing majority since 1987 - so 30 odd years ago. And this despite a weak Labour leader.

Ah, I didn’t realise we were going to revert to this forever therefore any future opposition was pointless.

You want to close the stable door after the horse has bolted. Have you voted Tory in the past? If so you would surely have been aware of their very vocal eurosceptic wing that hamstrung both Major and Cameron. Did EU membership only become an issue to you once Cameron sent the UK on this course? Its a bit late to complain let alone blame anybody but the Tories.

With Blair's landslide in 1997?

Murdoch backed New Labour. It seems only remainers disillusioned with the Lib Dems pine for "centrist" Labour.

Yes, I’ve voted Tory my whole life until 2017.

Yet I’m not the one who’s saying the horse has bolted so everything else is pointless.

I don’t deny my part in this but I’m not sitting here saying there’s no point in questioning anything now.

I don’t deny my part in this but I’m not sitting here saying there’s no point in questioning anything now.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that without winning the hearts and minds of leavers nothing changes.

If May called off Brexit tomorrow former Tory voters who wanted to remain would go back to the Conservatives. Austerity would continue. The voting preferences of working class leavers and middle class Tory remainers are equally as damaging to the UK.

Only a GE would prove it but I’m convinced if a pig with a rosette stood on a Remain ticket they’d win.

It’s all very well and good giving it large about leaving the EU but when you know it will hit you in the pocket, the enclosed ballot box becomes a very safe place.

@Bear Are you seriously suggesting that May would have amended her "Red Lines" because Labour had an anti-brexit policy?

Your living in another world if you really believe that.

You had your chance to change things back in 2015, when Labour had a more mainstream leader, you didn't vote for him either, instead you voted for a party that promised an EU membership referendum!!!

Didn't your read their fuckin manifesto????

You ve got what you voted for, why are you now complaining? they delivered on it :(

It’s all very well and good giving it large about leaving the EU but when you know it will hit you in the pocket, the enclosed ballot box becomes a very safe place.

40 years of privatisation, globalisation and since 2010 austerity hit the working classes badly but it didn't stop people with an "I'm alright Jack" attitude voting Tory. Now that Brexit looms, hurting everyone there is suddenly an appetite for solidarity to get us out of this mess. Too late I'm afraid.

But Bear might have voted for the Single Market - that was a 2015 Tory Manifesto commitment. As was the Referendum, but Cameron surprised himself by winning, so no longer had the LibDems to blame for thwarting him.

A referendum was a manifesto commitment, that was the game changer. Can’t believe people are trying to excuse the Tories.

We’ve now got disgruntled Tory voters saying they couldn’t vote for Corbyn but clearly they couldn’t vote for Milliband either!

Tory policy has been hammering folk for years but now Tory voters face being hit by brexit they expect Labour to bail them out! Even they did they’d probably repay Labour by voting Tory at the next GE.

Murdoch backed New Labour.

Maybe so, but they were still not right wing like the Tories are.

Which Tory voters are expecting Labour to bail them out? Those in the South east of England, excepting London, are almost never going to vote Labour. I'm certainly not making excuses for the Tories, nor for Cameron and May.